Unes

Frankly, I am a happy and peaceful person. I believe in a Creator which is in harmony with all of our scientific findings. I do not need to stress myself for my spiritual growth, my entire belief system is in harmony with the strongest logic that I could come up with. I am at peace and I hope, based on utmost rationality, to bring this essential foundation to the other people, that we could have our “Universal Brotherhood for entire Globe”. And I believe this is the essence of our humanity.

Exactly, this is the shortfall of the established religions. First of all they are subject to the individual’s interpretations, as a result of this, there are disputes between those groups. And secondly since the scriptures are considered to be divine, then it denies us a vigorous examination into its applications.


Sheshbazzar,
Your message is well taken, but the source of my disbelief is the Bible itself! If the source is a polluted well( as you described it) then do not blame me! I only used my God given rational to examine the material with an OPEN MIND. I am sorry that my findings are so distasteful to you! Again, I need to emphasis that my intension is honorable, and I seek nothing but the Truth. Fortunately I am not the slave of any pre-determined idea. I examine the validity of any claim based on its merits, I am only a human, and I am subject to all kind of mistakes, but if in a discussion I feel that I have presented a valid argument then I will not budge for a maybe scenario.

Sheshbazzar,
You are repeating all these evidences from the Gospels. Now, my argument is; let us examine these materials and see if these materials are in harmony with each other. This is like a witness in the court, if his story does not make any sense, then the Jury and the Judge will dismiss his testimony as faulty. Just remember, Jesus life story is like any other life story; Jesus was a man, who grew up like any other man, AND IN THESE DOCUMENTS JESUS HIMSELF NEVER CLAIMED TO BE A DEITY OR SON OF GOD. Then, his life story should make sense like any other man. Now, the Gospels are telling us of numerous miracles which Jesus performed. This account is in direct contrast; that he never claimed to be son of God. Another point; I can see if those miracles really had happened, then Jesus would have been like a Genuine Super Star. Such a Super Star would have had tons of people, Genuinely Adoring Him, and following Him. But, we see after all those performances, there was NO ONE in his trail to support him! And the same documents testify that people were urging the governor [B]“Crucify him!” [B] So, to me it is clear, the witness who is telling us that story (the Gospels), their stories are not credible. This is like; somebody claims that he is an important man and he has tons of money, and then he asks us for a donation to feed himself! We know if his story was true, then even if he was in a bizarre situation, still his American Express account could relief him!!! Lots of things in the Jesus Story in the Gospels do not jive. So it is reasonable that we dismiss the Gospels’ claim regarding those miracles and Jesus’ Divinity. This is the meaning of a HOAX, and we have to be Too Gullible to fall for those claims.

Sheshbazzar,
Our knowledge of Christianity is not limited to the Holy Bible. There are many other Biblical Sources which portray much better story of the Christianity Evolution. Josephus produced a secular version of those events. Many historians have in-depth knowledge of the Christianity. And their lectures are not based on “Faith”, but on the validity of the documents. I have to remind you all history of the Christianity is based on these documents and nothing more. So these documents do reveal the validity of a claim, or its exaggerations, or the blatant forgery. Like any other research studies these scholars do not have a unanimous view, and there are many disagreements, but at least their arguments are backed up by some very rational reasoning.

A month ago, Dr. Jay Newman, past president of the Canadian Theological Society, was on Charlie Rose. He said: “6 out of the 13 Paul’s letters in the Bible are written by Paul.” He also mentioned that the revelation on the Road to Damascus is not Paul’s!!! (“Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”) I do not know his evidence for such claim, but I am sure he has offered his reasons in his book. Since Dr. Jay Newman is a devoted and well respected Christian, then as a layman I tend to relay on his claim, and may use it in my arguments. There have been hundreds of such scholars and thousands of books regarding the Christianity studies.

Regarding my quote: "Apostle Peter became so confused and disoriented that he went to desert to figure out his Faith." I looked around to my documents, I could not recall where I got that quote from. It could have been by listening to the discussions of scholars like Dr. Jay Newman, or Professor Harold Bloom, or somewhere else. However, I found the following quote from Peter Jenin special documentary; “Jesus and Paul”. After Jesus’ crucifixion, it was commented:
Peter Jenin: “Most of his closest followers have fled.”
Author Ben Witherington III: “There is a mark of strong authenticity in these accounts, because they don’t paint a flattering picture of the magnificent twelve, they look like more a dirty dozen, than the magnificent twelve. They are hiding behind the closed door shivering, because of the Jewish officials, they did not want what happened to Jesus happen to them.”

May God Bless us all,
Unes

Sheshbazzar

Perhaps you are "a happy and peaceful person." that however is no indication that you do not wear the blinders of unbelief and doubt.

Your self-glorifying hope to be no less than the greatest spiritual leader the world has ever known, the one able to bring about a “Universal Brotherhood for entire Globe” is about as irrational and illogical as anything that has ever been written.
Rather obviously, 'you do not stress yourself for your spiritual growth'.
Your statement in showing such an appalling lack of humility, reveals a spiritual immaturity befitting of an arrogant, self-important, spiritual dwarf.
Not exactly Unes, you again missed the point, which was of all of those things that you by your writing, reveal yourself to be wholly ignorant of, and utterly oblivious to.
Better that you settle just for choosing what hat you will wear, rather than fantasise about how you will subjugate the entire Globe under your theological misconceptions.

Two points here, One; Your "Bible" is not my "Bible", no more than your theological misconceptions are mine.
Two; The "polluted well" to which I was referring, is not your "Bible" but rather that well of "common knowledge" from which you are drawing your polluted words and ideas.
To people who do not put a difference between that which is sacred' and that which is profane, or between that which is unclean, and that which is clean, A Bible is a Bible, and carefully chosen words, are soon replaced with popular generic substitutes;
And they which are of unclean hearts and lips, say; "No difference, ...no difference, it makes no difference..."
Yes, such as so do, and as so speak, and as so write, are distasteful.

All of which is quite irrelevant to Sheshbazzar, as Sheshbazzar is NOT a "Christian", and does not accept nor depend upon the "theology," or the mythologies of the "Christian" religion.

As for all the rest of that crap, why not just admit that there actually is no Bible basis nor passages that support your borrowed "Christian" myth of;
But that you just swallowed the fable, hook line and sinker, from those provably lying and polluted "Christian" sources, and that you just cannot resist repeating and upholding their lying claptrap?

Unes

Sheshbazzar, NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND, EVENTUALLY I WILL REMEMBER WHERE EXACTLY I GOT THAT QUOTE FROM! I am very careful not to use any statements which they sound questionable to me. However I did provide you with some resources which they were indicating similar view.

Vow!!! Sheshbazzar, AND YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF AS A PERSON OF FAITH!? NO WONDER WHY WE HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS FOR THE CLASH OF CULTURES! THESE PEOPLE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE BROTHERHOOD OF MAN IS POSSIBLE! ISN’T THAT, THE CORE PREMISE OF THE CHRISTIANITY!? IT SEEMS THAT YOU HAVE LOST YOUR BASIC IDENTITY!

Such Leaders thrive on Human Miseries!

Sheshbazzar, so you suggest that we sit idle and watch that our fellow human beings to suffer, and we rationalize it that God wanted that way!? That is really a PATHETIC VIEW! I wonder how a person of God could be that cruel!? Maybe it is not their fault; the Old Testament educated them that way! That is what I call the problems of the Abrahamic Faith! It is based on a Faulty Foundation.

Sheshbazzar, We may never solve all the miseries of the human race, maybe this is meant to be, but at least we should have that hope; that shining desire, which energizes our human soul. Sheshbazzar, you are showing no confidence in our Brilliant God Gifted Brain. So far we have solved and relieved so many of the Man’s miseries; so many diseases have vanished, almost no more famine in most part of the world, so much consumer’s Goods have flooded the market. Just comparing our life with a century ago, we have improved so much, that nobody could ever imagine that this much prosperity was possible. With the upcoming prosperity in China and India, within the next quarter of century we will dazzle the unbelievers! Sheshbazzar, it seems so much improvements means nothing too, you wish to dwell on THE “FOUR HORSES OF APOCLIPSE!”

It seems I am wasting my time talking to a soul, who has no imagination, and can not grasp the possibilities which we are blessed for by Mighty God. I do trust God, who has blessed us with this powerful brain to solve our problems, and to figure it out for ourselves, the Glory of his Presence. It is totally against any rationality that we yield to the mythologies of the past, as if they had found the Holy Grail, which we are incapable to experience it for ourselves at the present time. We only accept those wisdoms from the past, which we can verify the validity of their merits.

Sheshbazzar, I praise God for this magnificent opportunity which he has blessed me for it, and I do hope that God to extend that blessing even further. So I do not see why should I humiliate myself in front somebody who has no respect for his own God’s Giving Gift? We have to celebrate this Magnificent Gift together, rather than you bashing me for being so excited. You like the followers of your sect to leave their God’s Giving Gift behind, and follow a Faulty Theology like a Moron. I am sorry I am too proud of my God’s Gift to be that Gullible. Sheshbazzar, you are barking at the wrong door, I am very confident of my God’s Gift that I am laughing at your nasty remarks!

I sense that God has directed us in this path of scientific enlightenment. I got this notion from the joy which I receive when I learn some new discoveries in science. Science has taken us closer to God, and has freed us from many misconceptions of the past. Poor Galileo had to suffer from the ignorance of some retarded bishops, and I pray God to relieve us from the atrocities of these religion leaders.

May God Bless us all,
Unes

Chili

In defense of that bishop and the Church at large please know that the world we know is the only world that exists and is still as flat as it ever was . . . or heaven could not be round. To say otherwise is to deny heaven and that is the last thing we should do unless one is counted among the righteous or not counted at all. That, my dear Unes, is were the argument stops to say that a flat earth is religion specific to make the richess of heaven known. The flat earth concept really amounts only to our conscious mind being ours alone and was a Blank Slate at birth whereupon we write our own curriculum vitae. Would this be true in your world as well?

Unes

Chili, apparently you are not following the news:

On November 10, 1979, on the Subject of Galileo, Pope John Paul II made the following remarks:

“The search for truth is the basic task of science,”
“Galileo had to suffer a great deal at the hands of men and organisms of the Church”


May God Bless us all,
Unes

Sheshbazzar

Unes, it really dosen't matter from whom, or where the statement came from, locating your sources will not change the fact that it did NOT come from The Bible. Your "resources" while they may support your views, are not drawn from The Bible, and do not have the support of The Bible.

Yes, I have great faith that YOU will not become the greatest spiritual leader that the world has ever known, the one able to bring about a “Universal Brotherhood for entire Globe”
I DO believe that brotherhood between men is possibal, however not that YOU are going to be the one to accomplish it.

You assume too much Unes, I am NOT a "Christian", and am not a "Christian" "Leader".

Good Grief! Unes, YOU are the only one here talking about "the four horses of the apoclipse!" stop trying to load your crap onto others.
This is an Internet Infidels B&C Discussion forum, not a Christian Revival tent meeting, or a televangelist prayer line, go tell them your fantasy.
YHWH Elohi Israel, please hurry! and save all of us from this -gods-children!
:banghead:

DCHindley

Let us dispense with such silliness.

Everyone knows that Raba [d.352] said: "The world is six thousand parasangs, And the thickness of the heaven is one thousand parasangs."

If Raba said it, I believe it, and that settles it!

Dave