Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ben C Smith · 04-17-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Hoffman

We maintain that he was mythical to Paul - the first one who promulgated the idea of a crucified Jesus.

Just out of curiosity, then, what idea do you think the first apostles (Galatians 1.17; 1 Corinthians 15.8-9) and people like Andronicus and Junia (Romans 16.7) were promulgating?

Ben.

Lógos Sokratikós · 04-17-2007, 08:08 AM

Christ isn't dead. He can come back to life how many times they want! Look it Marvel Comics' Superman... How many times has that character come back to life?

Ted Hoffman · 04-17-2007, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

I had no desire to take Chris down. I was hoping if possible to get a more communicative rapport going.

I get tired of the adversarial approach among infidels. It doesn't make to much sense. It is the infidel who is supposed to be evidence driven and able to enunciate their thoughts more openly in order get to the bottom of issues.

Agreed. I will come to this later. A few quick ones.

Quote:

If you have knowledge of people believing that Tammuz was a real walking in the street human being, then I'll listen to it.

The important thing is that Tammuz died. The moral of the story is that you dont have to be "a real walking in the street human being" to die. How about that?

Quote:

The Ebionites have very little to do with anything, Ted. The figure of Ebion is merely that of a non-person who got turned into a person.

Okay

Quote:

I'm sure you'll understand when I say "spoken like a true believer."

I do.

Quote:

You might maintain this, but how well does it actually reflect Paul's thought? Our local HJ spokespersons have tended to point our Paul's zealous references to "in the body" and you've been absorbed in countless threads which regurgitate the subject.

How well is debateable. Its about the explanation that tries to account for all the evidence.

Quote:

The Ebionites get their name from the characteristic that they were "poor", in Hebrew, )BYWN.

Its not Tertullian alone we are looking at - GDon has started a thread on this matter. Gotta rush.

Chris Weimer · 04-17-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux

Hi Chris, I'm a bit confused as to why you referenced the Cargo Cults. Are you suggesting that there's 'overwhelming evidence' that John Frum actually existed? :huh:

Overwhelming? I don't think anyone doubts that John Frum existed. The question is in the name.

Quote:

Cute idea, but there seems to be very little material online discussing its merits.

That's because I scoured the scholarly journals, not the online world.

Quote:

Whilst I recognise that you might not wish to launch into a full-scale explanation, could you be so kind as to at least explain why you feel his tale of the Widow of Ephesus points towards an historical Jesus rather than a mythical one?

And it's beyond that too.

Ted Hoffman · 04-17-2007, 08:35 AM

As for Galatians 1.17; 1 Corinthians 15.8-9 and 2 Cor 11:4 which spin mentions, we know Paul considered the opponents as preaching a perverted gospel of Christ.
I dont think it really matters. Paul says he did not receive his gospel from a man but straight from God. And his gospel is what survived. That is the singularity we have for Christianity as we have it today.

Berthold · 04-17-2007, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

So the pope is hardline...what's new?

There used to be a saying, "The Bavarians are more popish than the Pope".

Well, now, the Pope is a Bavarian.

Ben C Smith · 04-17-2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Hoffman

As for Galatians 1.17; 1 Corinthians 15.8-9 and 2 Cor 11:4 which spin mentions, we know Paul considered the opponents as preaching a perverted gospel of Christ.

Yes, but not the pillars. He accuses Cephas of hypocrisy, not a perverted gospel. Paul and the pillars initially agreed with one another (Galatians 2.9). What did they agree on?

Quote:

Paul says he did not receive his gospel from a man but straight from God.

One of the most abused statements in the NT.

The contradiction between Galatians 1 and 1 Corinthians 15 is palpable and real, its explanation so obvious that many on this board have overlooked it.

Ben.

Chris Weimer · 04-17-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Hoffman

That is the singularity we have for Christianity as we have it today.

You betray yourself. I think most when embarking on the quest for the historical Jesus do so in order to find what's original, not to fight against what we have today.

No Robots · 04-17-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

The contradiction between Galatians 1 and 1 Corinthians 15 is palpable and real, its explanation so obvious that many on this board have overlooked it.

So...? Don't leave me hanging, please!

spin · 04-17-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamera

You mean reading current research in historiography as opposed to naive early 20th century fluff? Why, thank you spin for noticing.

No, I was talking about your almost fraudulent negation of historical figures because you couldn't see why your preferred literature didn't fit the same criteria as works which had been exceptionally closely examined, yet survived as raw materials for history and which featured the historical figures you wanted your contender to be included among.

spin

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

04-17-2007, 08:08 AM	#72
Lógos Sokratikós Contributor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virtually right here where you are Posts: 11,138	Christ isn't dead. He can come back to life how many times they want! Look it Marvel Comics' Superman... How many times has that character come back to life?

04-17-2007, 08:35 AM	#75
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	As for Galatians 1.17; 1 Corinthians 15.8-9 and 2 Cor 11:4 which spin mentions, we know Paul considered the opponents as preaching a perverted gospel of Christ. I dont think it really matters. Paul says he did not receive his gospel from a man but straight from God. And his gospel is what survived. That is the singularity we have for Christianity as we have it today.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.