Originally Posted by Queen of Swords

News flash, everyone! Each time atoms are split, scientists are overpowering god!



Except for when he doesn't, and millions of people die as a result.



And he is LSD.



I wonder who Jacob was wrestling with, then.



So when God told Moses "you will see my back parts", he was lying?



I'm sorry that you never got to know your parents. Were you an orphan?

Originally Posted by Jack the Bodiless

Interestingly, there doesn't appear to be a single verifiably-successful prophecy ANYWHERE in the Bible. At least, no Christian has yet presented me with a viable example. It would be reasonable to suppose that a Biblical prophet managed to get something right, even if by sheer chance... is the Bible supernaturally wrong?

Originally Posted by BioBeing

At the end of the last page, I gave you (for the sake of argument at least) that Jesus existed, and that he did in fact utter those words.

In order to decide if he is fact a liar, lunatic or lord, we next need to ascertain the veracity of his words. If he did in fact say “the only way to God is through me” we need to know then

(a) is there a God
(b) can this God be reached through Jesus
(c) are there any alternate paths to this God.

As far as I am aware, we fail at step 1 here. No God, no need to use Jesus to get to him, because he isn’t there.

Thus, I would conclude that Jesus was either a liar, a lunatic, or possibly simply misguided. Its very hard to ascribe motive to someone no-one has seen for 2000 years, so I am hesitant to come right out and say he was a lunatic. But there again, you never know (and you cannot libel the dead :devil: ).

Originally Posted by Jack the Bodiless

Incidentally, JesusFollower: you don't seem to have grasped the fact that you are primarily addressing people who don't believe in Jesus or God, and who know with certainty that much of the Bible is bunk. The tone of your remarks indicates that this hasn't dawned on you yet.

Originally Posted by Alethias

There are credible historians that dispute the existence of Jesus.

You present me with 3 choices. Are they the only possible choices?

I have kids. Sometimes, when they want to do something I don't want them to, instead of telling them no, I'll give them limited choices. By restricting my choices you are attempting to restrict my possible answers.

Other possibilities are

• that the documents were doctored over a period of time to make them conform to church theology
• that the writers of the books of the NT are liars and Jesus didn't say what was attributed to him.
• that Jesus didn't exist

I could come up with other possibilities with time, but those are the ones that seem most plausible to me, in order of plausibility.

When correcting bad behavior, giving limited choices for the intent of inducing a desired result is a plausible strategy. In discussions such as this, it's a logical fallacy.

Alethias.

Originally Posted by JesusFollower

Dear Jack the Bodiless,

I don't have a web site for you to look up but if your interested in viewing these fullfilled prophesies regarding Jesus possibly type in "Jesus fullfilled Old Testament Prophesies" or different variations of that.

Originally Posted by WishboneDawn

All of jesusfollower's proposal's presume that the gospels provide an accurate account of his life and I don't accept that, wicked, nasty liberal that I am.

Originally Posted by JesusFollower

I am open certainly to adding other options if you wish. I just thought that those 3 would pretty much cover the possibilities of who Jesus really was and possibly could be.:grin:

Originally Posted by Mageth

So say the Christians. Jews strongly disagree. And they're Jewish prophecies.

Search for "Jesus didn't fulfill prophecies".

Originally Posted by JesusFollower

There ya go Mageth...check out all options right?