Jeffrey Gibson

Why? I don't want to know if he's read it. I want to know if you've read it.

From your continued dodge of the question, it's clear the answer is no.

How this is relevant to whether or not you've read Origen's On First Principles is beyond me.

Yes, and it has to do with your claiming a familiarity with Origen that you don't possess.

Yeah, well you maintained for the longest while that Lk. 1:41 meant something that it patently did not. The length of time you've held on to a position has nothing to do with whether it is correct.

And Nixon maintained that he was not a crook.

In any case, we now we have another statement from the A man that's right up there with his "leapt into her womb" claim.

Jeffrey

aa5874

But, you are confused about the usage of the term"Biblical Literalism."

Where did Origen admit that the God of the Jews with the Logos, his Son born of a virgin, did not literally create the world?

I have already told you that you cannot show me.

Now, you are confused.

Jeffrey Gibson

Even if this were the case, it has nothing to do with the question of whether Origen thought everything in the Bible was literally true and happened just as the Bible says it happened
.
Why should he not admit that?

But more importantly, for Origin to have been the literalist you say he is with respect to the Bible (or at least what Genesis 1:1-2:4 sasys about the creation of the earth), he would have had to have admitted that the creation of the world undertaken by God through the Logos took place exactly as it was depicted as having taken place (light before the sun, etc.) in Genesis 1:1-2:4. But does he? If he does, can you point us to exactly where he does?

If not, then it's you who is confused.

Jeffrey

aa5874

Please read Contra Celsus 2.9 in English to avoid confusion.

In English, Contra Celsus 2.9 Just show me where Origen did believe or write that the God of the Jews with the Logos, the virgin-born Jesus did not literally create the world?

Jeffrey Gibson

There's nothing in either the English translation or the Greek original of Contra Celsus 2:9 that shows Origin admitting or stating that the creation of the world undertaken by God through the Logos took place exactly as it was depicted as having taken place (light before the sun, etc.) in Genesis 1:1-2:4. So I cannot fathom how your citation of this passage is an answer to the question I asked above.

Nor does Origen say anything there about the Logos being Jesus (in fact he seems to deny a virtual identity, seeing how he speaks of "the Logos God, and Son of the God of all things" speaking "in Jesus") let alone the virgin born Jesus, or about Jesus being virgin born.

So your claims about not your being confused don't carry much weight.

In any case, I ask again, this time hoping for an actual answer, Where does Origen state that the creation of the world undertaken by God through the Logos took place exactly as it was depicted as having taken place (light before the sun, etc.) in Genesis 1:1-2:4?

Jeffrey

aa5874

This is Origen, the literalist, in English.

See De Prinicipiis by Origen in English, and stop wasting my time.

Origen was a literalist.

Amaleq13

Origen stated that the biblical story of Adam should not be understood literally but figuratively. This story is not one that was apparently intended to be understood figuratively (the exception from the wiki definition) and modern literalists tend to interpret it literally.

That, alone, is sufficient to deny any broad claim that he was a literalist.

He quite clearly and explicitly did not take every apparently literal story in the Bible as literally describing historical reality.

mountainman

Dear aa5874,

Surely you cant mean this? How did Origen approach the concept of celibacy?

Best wishes,


Pete

aa5874

So who did Origen say created Adam?

The Creator with his Logos, His Son born of a Virgin, Jesus the resurrected and ascended.

This is Origen, the literalist And this is Origen, the Literalist Origen, the literalist, even claimed Wisdom is not impersonal. Wisdom is the first born. Wisdom, words and truth literally have life, according to the literalist Origen.

Origen even investigated if the Holy Ghost literally existed by birth or was innate.

Origen was a literalist.

S.C.Carlson

Of all the people in antiquity to accuse of being a "literalist," the one most renowned for his allegorical exegesis should not be one of them.

Stephen

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." -- Inigo Montoya