Anat

The only creatures who had problem with this directive were the adders. Thus Noah used the remains of the ark to construct a log table for them, with which even adders can multiply.

Anat

Does the Catholic Church in fact hold sex itself as sinful, or only sinful out of the context of marriage and potential for reproduction?

Anat

Based on Genesis 41:50 ("And unto Joseph were born two sons before the year of famine came, whom Asenath the daughter of Poti-phera priest of On bore unto him.") most Orthodox Jewish sources agree that a man who already has two children has fulfilled the duty to be fruitful and multiply, and is not required to have more children if he cannot support them. (Note that reproduction is considered to be the man's duty, thus allowing use of birth control if pregnancy is too risky for the woman's health.)

Toto

I'm not a Catholic, but as I recall, the Catholic Church holds that the desire for sexual pleasure is sinful. But the definitions that I find online seem to wander around the point without ever saying what they mean.

The sin of concupiscence

or

here

Anat

Isn't that somewhat in contrast with Genesis 2:23-24? "And the man said: 'This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.' Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh."

The Jewish view is that since man and woman had once been one flesh it is normal for them to seek each other. A single person of either sex is perceived to be incomplete.

John A. Broussard

Filll me in on natural law. Does it forbid abortion, divorce, suicide, women in the priesthood? Does it allow annulment? The rhythm method? The right of a patient to refuse nourishment? How about papal infallibility? Is that covered by natural law?

A definition of it would be helpful

Thanks.

DeDia

If I am not mistaken one method of birth control is permitted by theRcc. The Oginosometing rythm method, using a calender to keep tabs on ovulation. In this day and age I think you can get strips to test urin for this too and I don't thing this is forbidden. So it can't be compeletely ruled out that sex could be accepted just for the fun of it by RCC. A very ironic thing is that in very core of catholicism, the Italian nation, the devout seem to less fruitful and willing to multiply than evr before. Italy has the lowest birthrate in all of Europe, 1,1 child per woman. I don't think all these good-looking, sensuous, flirtsy Italians are practicing abstinence, no way. It seems to me rather that Italian catholics let the clergy and the pope practice religion vicariously so that they don't have to bother that much about it. They love their beautiful churches and the rituals and the spectacle , they fond of their popes like we in Sweden are fond of our royal family in spite og most of us being antimonarchy. What the church preaches doesn't seem to bother them that much. It has always been around. and as long as you confess you will be routinely forgiven anyway. It all seems avery practical to me.

John A. Broussard

From my rather limited acquaintance with Italians here in America and in Italy, I find them to be essentially very pragmatic people. So I suspect there's more to their acceptance of the glare and glitter of the church then the above. The fact that several billion dollars flows into Italian businesses every year because of the papacy can be a telling argument for wishing it well. Ever look for religious souvenirs in Rome? It's a bit like looking for sand on the beach.

orac

"Natural law" forbids that which the church considers sinful, requires that which the church considers essential, and is quiet on issues which the church has chosen not to speak out on. When the church's opinion changes, then it is by some amazing coincidence discovered that "natural law" was in fact different, and they were mistaken as to what natural law applied.

Curiously, now that the catholic church has accepted evolution as genuine, natural law has yet to be updated to demand we live in trees and eat raw food like our natural relatives, but instead definately artificial houses are still acceptable.


The interesting discoveries of assorted non-sentient animals that have mastered the fine arts of prostitution and promiscuity have yet to be defined as evidence that "natural law" allows such things, which suggests that "natural law" can't be defined as "do that which happens frequently in nature", leading me to be a little cynical about the term.


It's a con game: "natural law" means "we can't justify it, but the superstitious peasants these days think that 'natural' is a synonym for 'good' (even though the local McDonald's is the closest they've ever been to a cow) so it makes a great non-answer when we're asked to justify our hatred of anything that makes life enjoyable."

IvanJames

I can't think of a better source for sexual advice than an 85 year old virgin.

---Ivan James