sugarhitman

LOL! Think for a moment what you just wrote. ..."you shall see me again BECAUSE I GO TO THE FATHER." That is not about His return to earth...but his going to heaven...where the Father is. Believers will see him again when they themselves go to the Father...which Jesus says many times in the texts.


Wow! Now how did you miss that?

sugarhitman

I use the more reliable KJV.The word is "Until" not Before.

dizzy

The International Standard Version translates ἕως inconsistently. Mark 9:1 has "until" and the parallel in Matthew 16:28 has "before". David Alan Black did the base translation for the NT. He received his PhD from a reputable college, even if he seems a bit of a hopeless fundie.

aa5874

So are you claiming that Jesus in the NT Canon did NOT claim people would see him coming in the clouds AFTER he ascended to his FATHER?

Examine Mark 13.26 In the Jesus stories Jesus would go to his Father and then return and the dead in Christ and those ALIVE would SEE Jesus, NOT in heaven with his FATHER but when he comes BACK.

This is the NT version of the RETURN of Jesus. He will descend from heaven and then people would SEE HIM. .

1 thess. 4.16-18 Everybody will JESUS when he DESCEND from heaven. People do not ASCEND to HEAVEN to SEE Jesus with his Father according to the NT.

You must have misunderstood the NT story about when people would SEE Jesus.

Jesus in gJohn is claiming that in a "little while people, and even the dead, would SEE HIM when he DESCEND from heaven in his second coming according to the story in the NT.

sugarhitman

Um, nice try...but John 16 is not about Jesus' Coming....It was about Him rejoining his father in heaven...and that the disciples would be saddened about this absence. He said that they would see him again because he returns to his father. You are confusing Jesus return into heaven with His Return.....only the disciples witnessed his return to heaven.....the whole world will witness his return....so yes...you do err. :wave:

aa5874

The author of gJohn is writing about the second coming. The whole world should have seen Jesus in a LITTLE WHILE.

No one can see Jesus in a "LITTLE WHILE" unless JESUS returned in a ""LITTLE WHILE".

John 16.16-18
Please explain where the whole would should see Jesus according to the NT?

Is it NOT when he would have returned in a LITTLE WHILE?

sugarhitman

A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

17Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father?

18They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.

19Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

20Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

21A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

22And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

23And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

24Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

29His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

30Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

31Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

32Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.



There is nothing in that chapter about the world seeing him when he goes to the father...but that the disciples would see this...not the world. You are confusing this with His Return....its not there bud.

Roller

How does 1 Thess 4:15-17 (or 1 Cor 15:20 "First Fruits" of the harvest) and Paul's belief that the end will come during his lifetime fit into what youre saying?

show_no_mercy

More reliable? According to who, the Willard Preacher?

sugarhitman

When Paul said "then we which remain alive shall be caught up in heaven to meet the Lord at his coming."

The "we" doesnt refer to his generation but believers as a group. Paul also wrote: "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,.."



In other words the Great Apostosy followed by the appearence of the Anti-Christ precedes the coming of Christ..and that can occur in any generatioon, which is why Jesus told the disciples in Acts 1 that it was not for them to know the time of his return...and that even he didnt know when it would occur...only that the generation in which the main signs appear in would see his return. Those signs are ofcourse the Apostosy, the arrival of Anti-Christ, world persecution of believers and ethnic Jews...specifically the Jews of Israel over the Jerusalem Issue.



Two of those signs are here..that is the Apostosy and growing hostility towards Israel over land and Jerusalem....Yeshua makes its crystal clear (as does the OT) that the Messiah appears during a time when the whole world fights Israel.....the "trampling of Jerusalem". Right now plans are being made to divide Jerusalem 3 ways....coupled with the rise in antisemitism and its twin...anti-Biblical Christianity.....I can now say with confidence........................................ ....We are that Generation.