spin

Let's imagine 2.4 million people for a moment. That's the population of a modern city with good sewerage. The desert had almost no water, just a few very modest waterholes.

Let's be tight and say that the individual produced a quarter kilo of faeces per day. That's 600,000 kilos or 600 tonnes deposited per day (1 tonne = 2205 pounds). Without sewerage there would be no adequate way to get rid of such a vast amount of human waste.

It would mean 219,000 tonnes or 482,895,000 pounds of bodily waste per year. The Israelites were at Kadesh Barnea for 38 years without any sewerage, which means a build-up of 18,350,010,000 pounds of human waste.

Look at the water situation. One tiny spring, let's count 24 people per minute for one minute at the spring. That's 100,000 minutes necessary between drinks for the individual. That's over 69 hours between accesses of the spring.

And sleeping. Let's imagine an individual takes up 1 square metre of space (a bit over a square yard). Our Hebrews didn't have any beds or anything because our apologists don't want them to possess anything, no sleeping bags, no cushions, no blankets or coverings, just straight on the ground. They would occupy well over two square kilometres, just them and nothing else. 38 years of this at Kadesh Barnea would require an enormous team of chiropractors.

I guess thinking about this silliness doesn't help believers get over the lack of reality involved. It is hilarious to think that there are people willing to believe this stuff.




spin

RED DAVE

This is precisely the point, and why we are dealing either with personal mental illness or cult behavior. In either case the individual is impervious to proof because they know the truth.

Bible inerrancy is best treated as a pathology. If you don't believe there can be such as thing as group pathology, consider the nazis.

RED DAVE

xaxxat

Nice try, guys, but you're forgetting several things...

a.) The Hebrews had a magical dowser man who could whack a rock with a stick and make water come from it. How many rocks do you think were in the desert?

b.) Manna. Manna was made from the air, so no solid waste was produced, just farts that blew away in the dersert wind.

c.) The Hebrews were very, very neat.

:Cheeky:

3DJay

Doh! Forgot about the Jewish mother guilt trip stereotype! That would explain why they always picked up after themselves.


Peace

Larsguy47

Thanks for all those specific LINKS to the research, but I am reading up on this. I was just thinking what would be expected, scientifically speaking, of a body, wrapped in cloth, a man so no jewelry per se, placed in an isolated but shallow grave covered with dirt. What would we expect to find after ten years? 50 years? 100 years? 500 years? Would there be any bones left? Would worms and ants have eaten everything up? Would there be any way to tell a body had been buried there?

What would be the Google topic to find out about that?

Finally, I'll again note that it seems to me that a lot of confirmation of the Jews and their history comes from corroborating pagan records from Babylon and Assyria that interacted with them after they became a strong presence and built some major cities. But that was not the case right after they left Egypt, with much dependent solely on archaeology to establish this period. It's rather startling even that Shishak's inscription suddenly matches the state of Israel in all its glory as if a major people and kingdom just appeared out of nowwhere. I can't help but to think the deficiency in archaeological "evidence" has to do with the that culture and the region.

Even so, the more details we know particularly about the region would be helpful. I'll read up on the "wilderness of Zin" trek, but if you have a quick link in particular you want me to review, that would be nice. Thanks.

I think something should have been left too, but there may be a reason why we're not finding what we are expecting.

LG47

Larsguy47

We're not going to forget about it. That was part of their culture. Ever hear about KOSHER? You can't treat every culture the same. Their God walked in their camps and said he'd stay away if he found indecent things so there was a religious precendent for rules of cleanliness. These people were not going to be the ones leaving a lot of liter around. What refuse they did have we know they likely burned up because there were ash heaps. Guess what? Lots of things burn up and ashes blow away.

The neatness and sanitation customs of the people would make a difference in not only what might have been left, but where it might have been left.

Sorry, but a messy people are going to leave more behind than those who clean up behind themselves and want to leave the environment the way they found it. Cleanliness among the Jews was more than an individual thing.

LG47

RED DAVE

From Larsguy47 (aka Messiah):
There is: they weren't there.

From Larsguy47 (aka Messiah):
Instead of bullshitting about something you know nothing about, Jewish customs in the late Bronze Age, why don't you do your research like everyone else around here.

By the way: few quotes from books written hundreds of years after the alleged events does not consitute research.Research is done by hsitorians and archaeologists, and their verdict on the Exodus is: No!!


RED DAVE

Larsguy47

We know YOU KNOW the truth, Red Dave, because you were there back then and witnessed it yourself. But for the rest of us, we are investigating the pros and cons.

The Bible is true history, period. And you can't prove otherwise. The lack of what might have been long destroyed in the past is not proof it didn't happen. If you walk across cement when it's wet, there might be "proof" you did that 100 years later. But if you wait until the cement is dry, will the cement tell us where and when someone walked over it? No.

The Jews had lots of Egyptian gold when they left. Do you expect to find any of it lying around? I suppose you expect they dropped it and didn't notice they had dropped it and nobody else did either so it should be there for us to pick up now 3000 years later, heh? Forget it! They had gold but no gold would be expected to be left. As far as I'm concerned the only thing I'd really be looking for are graves or evidence of graves from 3000 years ago in that region. Not much else that wouldn't have been discovered over those years by now.

LG47

Larsguy47

[QUOTE]Link please? I know they are but they are tombs that have been sealed and air tight. Did the men get buried with jewely too? Was that the Jewish custom to bury someone with jewelry? Are you talking about remains found in shallow graves somewhere or in caves? BE SPECIFIC.


Thanks for the links. Will check them out!!

Much appreciated.

LG47

RED DAVE

From RED DAVE:
From Larsguy47 (aka Messiah):
I rest my case.

RED DAVE