Diogenes the Cynic

At one time, most of the world believed that the sun and moon were gods. That's what arguments from popular belief are worth.

Vorkosigan

Very likely. But it could well have become unoccupied but with the place-name preserved, then re-occupied later.

Vorkosigan

Johnny Skeptic

If there was a town of Bethlehem in Judea during that time, what significance would that have?

DCHindley

There would still be some archaeological traces of previous occupation. Sometimes these larger "towns," if ravaged by flood or fire or war, just relocate down the road a mile or two. After all, it is a place to live, not the farmland itself, which was spread out for many miles in each direction. The Bethlehem of the Jewish scriptures is described as a "town with its villages," so I'd suppose it was a place where excess grain was stored. There is sometimes not much difference in material culture. Here in Ohio we have townships (10 square miles, roughly), incorporated villages (under 5,000), and incorporated cities (5000+), and counties (variously shaped, usually with a county seat being one of the cities in its area, but sometimes a village). Some townships operate their own police and fire departments, most don't. Counties operate nominal police forces, but rarely fire depts. My place of residence, 5 miles SW of the Center of the World, vacillates between being a village and a city from census to census (every 10 years). Even boom towns bust sometimes, look at the towns of the gold rush in the American West. In spite of its name, Center of the World is not even a village anymore. It is just the mile or so between two signs along the road. Yet in the 1940s it was bustling with trucks going in to and out of the Ravenna Arsenal (TNT and Amatol 50/50 bombs for Army aircraft in WW2). Things Change.

The name Bethlehem means "House of bread" and so I'd suppose any of the new storehouse towns that get erected could take such a name, as bakers live where the grain is.

DCH

sotto voce

'On hearing his words, some of the people said, "Surely this man is the Prophet." Others said, "He is the Christ." Still others asked, "How can the Christ come from Galilee? Does not the Scripture say that the Christ will come from David's family and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?"' Jn 7:40-42 NIV

sotto voce

Because intelligent, educated, even sophisticated people have taken offence at the cross of Christ since Stephen was stoned. And arguably, many of the first Mormons were not intelligent, educated, sophisticated people.

Diogenes the Cynic

The average original follower of Joseph Smith could read. The average follower of Jesus could not. Jesus himself (if he existed) was an illiterate, uneducated peasant who believed in devils.

No person, intelligent or not, believes in the supernatural claims about Jesus because they have seen any evidence, so it doesn't matter how smart they are.

Incidentally, studies show that the more educated people are, the less religious they are likely to be, and the more likely they are to become atheists.

Chili

Could all be true and consider that a good product sells itself and Constantine just bought it to make hay with it.

sotto voce

Then they did not know how to make an anagram out of 'Moroni'.

If they could read, they could read for themselves that Jesus had fulfilled prophecy. And if they couldn't, they could trust fear and threats of those who could.

It's nonsensical to cite Mormonism for this purpose, because, like most new religions of the last two millennia, it is ruefully based on the premise that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

andrewcriddle

I'm not sure whether I'm understanding correctly David Himdley's posts, but just to clarify: There is clear unambiguous archaeological evidence of the occupation of the site now called Bethlehem during the iron age. (The period of the first Temple and the life of David.) The issue is the paucity of archaeological evidence between the exile and the Constantinian building program. Either it was uninhabited during this period or it was a small village in an area which has not been excavated.

If Bethlehem at the time of Jesus was on the site of the present town then this might explain why it has not been successfully excavated. (Iron Age Bethlehem extended outside the area of the present town.)

Andrew Criddle