Gallego

Here it is my opinion.

There are two kind of gods:
1- Completely trascendental (= no interactions with reality)
2- With interactions (revelations, ID, ...)

The God 1 cannot be studied by science, as no interaction with reality implies that there is not natural, that is the objective of study for science. Science cannot study what cannot be studied. It is pretty obvious, but it is neccessary to remark it. Both positions (atheist & theist) are arbitrary.

The God 2 can be studied by science, because of its interactions.
Then, there are two possibilites:
A-> No scientific proves
B-> scientific proves

The God 2B leads inmediately to be a theist. It is the most logical route, isn't it?

And the God 2A? Again, two different routes:
- Atheist (like me). No proves -> no existance. For everything (God, pink panther in the third moon of Saturn, lepechraum, ...)
- Theist. No proves -> existence. But, to be consecuent, this must be done for everything. For pink panthers and for God. If somebody is believer for God 2A but nor for pink panthers, then he is not being consecuent, as in equal situations sometimes he takes a route and sometimes takes other. It is a pretty arbitrary decision. If somebody is consecuent and believes in all things that can be imagined, then there is no contradiction.

So, which god are we talking to? And which route do we follow?

mirage

Cart is coming before horse here.

You have just proposed an arbitrary hypothetical concept, then subdivided it, then asked which one we should choose to believe/not believe in.

A more straightforward method would be: who am i? where am i? can i form a reasonable model of my reality? yes, ok? have i even thought of the idea of god? no, no reason to. hang on, a bunch of people are making conflicting claims that there is some type of higher intelligence. is any of them likely to be right (at the expense of the others)? no, not on any evidence they present. we don't need to even worry about "how science can study it"

There is no problem here. Go back to your homes.

So 2A, obviously.

Gallego

Not exactly.

Depending on which god we are talking to, I propose which routes seems more logical (to me)

lulay

i would go about it inquiring: what is it that we KNOW?

we know we are here. that me you her and him are living here in this Earth. that we have to eat drink shit. so we are familiar with each other as a species, and share these functions with other species

That we can see conflict seemingly everywhere. wars going on with people who have beliefs in different interpretations of what their "God" is

and in our so-called secular world, the idea that there is no "God"--as science explains it--but just materialism

from there i explore. is that IT? do i see a pattern between all these ideologies. Is MEANING missing from our lives. well let me throw this question open you you here. do you feel there is meaning misssing out of your lives? How do you FEEL?

Gallego

The meaning is given to the things by us

Vorkosigan

How do I feel? Atheism is a simple philosophy, but it is of great comfort to me.

Lulay, meaning is what you make of this life. You seem to be saying that your life has no meaning unless something outside of it assigns that value. That strikes me as anti-human, almost nihilistic, and sad. This rejection of everything human that characterizes Christianity is why so many of us reject that religion.

[mod hat on]It doesn't look like you are making an argument for the existence of God, I'll be winging this over to GRD.

Vorkosigan

BlessNot

Conclusion:

There are to many god's out there.

Just one more reason I thank God I am an atheist.

:devil3: