John A. Broussard

I was hoping you'd clarify the point that the scripture says, without reservation, that the son stood still. But you say it only seemed to do so, while at the same time maintaining that the bible does not mislead.

That is very, very strange.

aChristian

Let's take it one step at a time.
Have you ever used the word sunset? (You get some nice ones in Hawaii.)

rodluvan

I'd say it's not as simple as a question of point of reference. In a relatively moving, but not accelerating system of reference it would be so, but rotating bodys such as the earth are experiencing forces due to the cirkular movement (as Newton's First Law of Motion established: "An object in motion will continue in motion in a straight line with constant speed unless an unbalanced force causes it to do otherwise". The force in this case being gravitational force.). Placing the reference system on the earth instead of on the sun would need introducion of forces to comply with the centripetal-force otherwise being a factor during rotation.

Take two trains running besides one another on two separeted rails. Train A is accelerating from velocity v0 and train B is keeping velocity v0. From the point of view of passangers on train B, train A is accelerating and Train B is keeping the same velocity. From the point of view of passangers on train A, train B does not seem to deaccelerate due to the force felt by passangers on train A during acceleration (passangers on Train B is not experiencing deacceleration). Placing the reference system onboard the accelerating train A requires a force being introduced to "explain" the force felt during acceleration and the same goes for placing the reference system on earth in relation with the sun.

The corresponding centrifugal-force felt by passangers on earth is neglectable (and thus from a subjectiv point of view the sun does seem to rise), but you can not change point of reference arbitrary in accelerating systems without introducing forces. Hence, since god is perfect and knows all according to you, the "inerrant" Bible is wrong in stating that the sun stopped since it did not stop in relation to the earth.

Jack the Bodiless

Do you actually imagine we are unaware of ICR and the bogus "information" it contains?

Those who DO seek genuine information cease to be creationists. That's what happened to Glenn Morton (former ICR creationist).

If there WAS an unrefuted creationist claim somewhere, I think we would have heard about it by now. Why can't the creationists present one?

YOU certainly have not done so.
I suspect that your "research" in this area is as extensive as your "research" into scientific evidence that contradicts Genesis. Your faith tells you that no such arguments can exist: so why look for them?
But you're not pointing out any "errors" at all. Indeed, you seem to be avoiding detailed discussion of specifics, you're just tossing out baseless assertions.
But you still haven't established the resurrection. And you still haven't explained how the resurrection (even if you COULD establish it) would make billions of fossils disappear, DNA rewrite itself, and so forth. And you still haven't found a single instance of divine inspiration anywhere in the Bible.

John A. Broussard

Yes, and we would be describing what appears to be the movement of the sun.

Evidently, then, the biblical statement that the sun stood still is simply a description of the sun not moving.

I take it you agree, then, that the bible reported something that didn't happen. It just appeared to happen--like sunset.

Is that correct? The sun didn't stand still, but the bible says it did.

jakejonesiv

Doesn't matter. Romans 3:23 is wrong. "Paul" must never have heard of Zacharias and Elisabeth. According to Luke 1:6, they both kept all the commandments, were righteous before God and blameless. They had no sin.

Jake Jones

Boro Nut

Now you're just being silly Jack. No Christian takes that position. It was Buddha's reincarnation that did all that.

Boro Nut

Boro Nut

Appeared to whom exactly? Not the rather solar preoccupied nations of the Nile Delta or Americas that's for sure, who can usually be relied upon to report any nuance of the transit of the celestial orb including passing seagulls. Nor even to the rather sage Chinese for that matter. Magi also appear conspicuous by their absence following this wondrous event, so astonishing in it's profundity that they were presumably all too dumbstruck to record it.

No Sundial QA department reports having to scrap a whole day's worth of defective models. No contemporary sunbathers report hives. No increase is noted in worldwide ice-cream sales.

No. The only reliable record of the wondrous event is provided by the hastily assembled Royal Jewish Observatory Corps, who not only spend all day chopping lumps out of the enemy (who by definition curiously spend all day blithely having lumps chopped out of them - I suspect they usually knocked off at sunset) but still find time to make the detailed observations necessary to embarrass the astrological community at large, without having access to even the most rudimentary equipment, time, or opportunity. And all carried out, furthermore, in the full knowledge that they hadn't the slightest hope of ever being believed. That my friend is what I call light infantry.

Boro Nut

Dean Anderson

You keep switching from the finger tip regrowing to the finger regrowing. Which was it?

Also - you don't seem to know how long it took. Your guess of "a few days" is not an accurate record. How long was it, exactly?

Plus, as you point out, the regrowth of the tip was not complete - if the tip was regrown except for the fingernail, how much exactly had regrown?

It all sounds perfectly within normal parameters to me, given the vagueness of the story.

Don't forget that the story will have grown in the retelling, anyway - as all stories do, whether deliberately or not.

There wouldn't have been any scar tissue. Scar tissue is what gets laid down instead of proper healing when people get older.

Then read the full paper (rather than just looking at the abstract) and read some of the other papers on that site. They explain all about the link between regrowth and scar tissue, and talk about the difference between normal regrowth of flesh and skin and regrowth of fingernails. I just chose that particular one as an example.

Your "miracle" has a perfectly natural explanation, so you now have three choices:

1) Refuse to accept that young children can regrow fingertips, even when presented with medical papers discussing it. Therefore, your story can still be claimed as a "miracle".

2) Accept that young children can regrow fingertips, and that all the details of the story fit this natural explanation, but then add extra (ficticious or assumed) details and exaggerate the story so that it can still be claimed as a "miracle".

3) Accept that - like Conception or Disease or many other processes that can only be explained by modern medicine and science - this is something that used to be hailed as a "miracle" until we discovered the natural processes that underly it, and now it has gone from "supernatural" to "natural" whilst still being impressive.

John A. Broussard

I wonder if they had any non-sun-dependent time measuring devices back in those goat-herding days.

Would an hour glass have stopped dropping its sands during that long, long, long period of daylight?

Many curious things must have happened. Too bad we lost that book of Jasher--whatever that might have been. According to the verse, this was written up ahead of time in the Jasher tome.

You gotta admit, those were interesting times, with god flashing his bum to Moses and that sort of stuff.