Kapyong

Gday,

Wow.
The issue is whether he was crucifed on earth, or in a heavenly dimension.

But to TedM it seems that there is ONLY ONE possibility - being crucified on earth. Instead of arguing something like :
"well, I claim Jesus was crucified on earth physically, (and not crucified in some heavenly plane) because of fact X, argument B, scripture C."
No, TedM's argument for being crucified on earth is merely :
* [He] was crucified 1:13,23, 2:2, 2:8

Simply put, TedM directly equates the two :
* being crucified
is directly EQUAL TO :
* being crucified on earth
This is a common argument from HJers - as if eathly actions cannot take place in heaven, (or myth, or fiction. The point being - it's NOT necessarily on earth.)

90% of TedM's list amounts to the same things - he mentions things (blood, flesh, death, crucifixions) that occur on earth, and simply ignores the possibility of them happening in heaven.
Then because he fundamentally believes these things can ONLY happen on earth, he simply presents these things as if they ARE, ipso facto, evidence for them happening on earth.
It's just nonsense.

All sorts of heavenly actions and things occur in heaven, or in some mythical realm. And there ARE hints that crucifixion was among them.


K.

archibald

Guys, have a nice weekend. I'm going to have to ease back on how much time I'm spending online, and on this issue alone. It's frighteningly addictive, and my wife and kids are starting to give me serious gip, and my work is suffering. :]

I'll try to respond to any posts, if anyone addresses me, on A of I 9, or anything.

Ciao.

Kapyong

Gday,

So?
Hercules is associated with a wooden club.
Harry Potter is associated with a wand.
Osiris is associated with a coffin.


Or speaking about Powers in the Air or some heavenly plane - the Archonte.


So WHAT ?
Osiris died during a Egytpian festival.
Harry Potter died during a crisis.
This is so bad it should score MINUS ONE.


Wow.
Jesus EXPRESSLY said so, definitely, for sure!
(well, um, that is - IF it was actually Jesus, heh.)
Another bad one.


So?
Osiris had a brother.
Ron Weasly had brothers.
Sherlock Holmes had a brother.
Again this fundamental mistake - human qualitys are often found in fictional or divine figures - so what?

IF again!
And IF it wasn't Jesus - then it's worthless.

JESUS initiated it?
That's just assuming your conclusion.
We are asking for evidence THAT he initiated it.
What we actually have is PAUL making claims of something he 'received'.


Jesus was handed over actually.
Anyway -
Osiris was betrayed during a feast.
Harry Potter was betrayed after supper.



So did Osiris, Hercules, Harry Potter, Sherlock Holmes, Attis....
This same old error we get almost every time.


So was Osiris and Hercules and Sherlock Holmes and Dumbledore.


So was Adam, Osiris, Gilgamesh, Jason etc.


*Yawn*
Attis, Noah, Hercules, Iasion, Sherlock Holmes, Dumbledore....
They are all dead, just as dead as last post.


K.

Kapyong

So?
Iasion suffered, so did Attis and Osiris.


Um - that's evidence for being a historical human?
That's totally backwards!
That marks him as a divine entity.
That's a MINUS ONE.


So?
Harry Potter became poor.
So did Hercules.
Same old problem...


So?
Harry Potter was meek and gentle.
Hercules was violent.
Sherlock Holmes was studious.


So?
Attis was castrated.
Sherlock Holmes fell from a cliff (and then resurrected later!)


*yawn*....
Attis, Osiris, Harry Potter, Sherlock Holmeszzzzzz......


K.

Kapyong

...

IF.
There is a phrase 'Lord's Brother' which MAY be a historical reference.
That's ONE more maybe for you.


Attis, Osiris, Harry ...


Attis, Osiris, Sherlock, Harry, Iasion....


Odin hung on a tree - he did for NINE days - 3 times better (well, more like 5-6 times really, but who's counting? not Christians ;-)


Funny how everyone has their own favourite translation of 'kata sarka' - and it always seems to bend over to THEIR point of view - funny that :-)

Yes - here is ONE more MAYBE for you Ted.
But I have to ask - WHO is the woman, Ted?
Are there any woman discussed nearby?
Is Mary ?


So were Adam, and Job, and Moses and Joshua and many more who certainly or probably never existed either.

Wow!
Because we all know that fictional or spiritual or mythical or legendary beings can NEVER SAY ANYTHING, right Ted ?

And calling God his 'father' is surely a sign of being a historical being, right ted?

Honestly - this is so BAD it's another MINUS ONE.

Attis : tree
Hercules : club
Harry : wand
Sherlock : violin
Osiris : coffin


K.

Kapyong

Gday,

Attis, Osiris, Hercules, Harry, Sherlock .. heck every fictional or legendary person EVER fits this one !


Because no legendary figure EVER did that !

Oh yes - ONLY historical figures can be obedient.


*yawn*....
Attis, Osiriszzzzzzz


Attiszzzzz....

Attis, Osiris, Harry, Iasion ...


They are nearly all repeats by now.


K.

Kapyong

Sure - there's a MAYBE - and maybe an interpolation.

IF.
Anyway - giving teachings is exactly what divine beings DO.


Attis, Osiris, Iasion...

Hercules = club
Attis = tree
Harry = wand
Sherlock = violin


Definitely a MAYBE for you.


Wow.
The OPPOSITE of historical - that's MINUS ONE.


Attis' cut was associated with a tree.

*yawn*
Attis, Osiris, Iasion ....


Riiight.
Because being 'raised from the dead' is a sure sign of a historical person right ?


K.

archibald

Just thought I'd double check something which was niggling the back of my mind after I left this evening.


"I was stating that as crucifixion in general could take place on earth, it could also take place in the heavens (a principle stated in the Ascension of Isaiah 7), not that every individual crucifixion did."
http://www.jesuspuzzle.humanists.net...esDonJNGNM.htm


Earl, do you not even read your own articles? Sheesh.

And as for the regurgitated balderdash about me 'swearing up and down' that I have read your stuff when I haven't ........Who the fuck do you think you are, chum, repeatedly implying (incorrectly) that another poster is a liar? Wanna try reading properly next time? Did I say I'd read ALL your stuff? Did I say I'd read ALL of anybody's stuff? More to the point, I've shown an open willingness to read more of your stuff since joining this thread, and unbelievably, you're STILL cranking on about it (in fact, I believe you actually started by saying that I had actually refused to read your material, before I even said anything, which was triple weird) along with all that other presumptious quack mind-reading of other peoples' supposed motives.

And one more thing. Someday, consider getting your own story straight about whether you're not avoiding peer review, or whether you are, because you've said both.

Toto

Everyone. Please cool it with the personal remarks. Thank you

Toto

As did the docetic Jesus

I've been following this issue for a long time now, and Earl is correct. The mainstream of NT studies is reluctant to touch mythicism.