Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chili · 12-19-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Huh? that's just the beginning

Of course, it's just the beginning. Who told you all that, I ask again?

Nobody told me but that is how I read the passages. But then I am a farmer and talk a lot to my own self.

Doug Shaver · 12-20-2009, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

but that is not what it says. According to the story, God did not say to Adam "You will deserve death." According to the story, God said to Adam "You will die."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petergdi

It takes a special aptitude for boneheaded literal-mindedness not to recognise that the author of the story intended God's words to be true. So if they aren't true in the most literal-minded sense then the author must have intended something less literal-minded.

Fine. The author believed that Adam died -- perhaps in some metaphorical or allegorical sense -- on the day he ate the fruit. That does make more sense than supposing that the author believed that when God said "You will die," God actually meant "You will deserve death."

Chili · 12-20-2009, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

but that is not what it says. According to the story, God did not say to Adam "You will deserve death." According to the story, God said to Adam "You will die."

Fine. The author believed that Adam died -- perhaps in some metaphorical or allegorical sense -- on the day he ate the fruit. That does make more sense than supposing that the author believed that when God said "You will die," God actually meant "You will deserve death."

You mean deserve to know that you will die.

Julio · 12-20-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Fine. The author believed that Adam died -- perhaps in some metaphorical or allegorical sense -- on the day he ate the fruit. That does make more sense than supposing that the author believed that when God said "You will die," God actually meant "You will deserve death."

You mean deserve to know that you will die.

What if Jehovah lied to Adam, when somehow told him he would live forever IF he didn't touch the diabolical tree?
That's another angle in the "mystery", I think.
How would Adam know about eternal life and losing it?!...
The Bible is very obscure in those mysteries.

aa5874 · 12-20-2009, 08:50 AM

[QUOTE=Petergdi%

Chili · 12-20-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

You mean deserve to know that you will die.

What if Jehovah lied to Adam, when somehow told him he would live forever IF he didn't touch the diabolical tree?
That's another angle in the "mystery", I think.
How would Adam know about eternal life and losing it?!...
The Bible is very obscure in those mysteries.

First, Jehovah is not God but may be seen as equal to Lord God.
Second, God never spoke to Adam and not even to man but to woman.
- the woman is already eternal and is wherein humans can be eternal.
- the TOK is not diabolical but good for food and gaining things.
- the serpent is the void that begs consumation in the conscious mind.
- Adam was not conceived until Gen.3:7 when 'their' eyes were opened.
- eternal life is a given and temporal life is the illusion [we live in].
- no such thing as losing eternal life but oblivion can make it seem that way.
- obscurity exist in the mind of the beholder.

Julio · 12-20-2009, 09:44 AM

WOW, Chili!
I am going to need serious help here, from other members, soon, please!
Where did you get all that esoteric stuff?
Surely you did not come up with it by yourself?
Maybe you did...
What books did you read?

You mean the epic described in those first chapter is altogether "a mystery" imbued with allegory and metaphors?
Maybe...
[Please, somebody help me here?]
Did Adam know what was "eternal life", if he did not eat of the forbidden fruit?

Chili · 12-20-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

WOW, Chili!
I am going to need serious help here, from other members, soon, please!
Where did you get all that esoteric stuff?
Surely you did not come up with it by yourself?
Maybe you did...
What books did you read?

You mean the epic described in those first chapter is altogether "a mystery" imbued with allegory and metaphors?
Maybe...
[Please, somebody help me here?]
Did Adam know what was "eternal life", if he did not eat of the forbidden fruit?

No help needed but just take it for what it is worth.

Adam was called into existence by way of conjecture only and never was formed to have an existence as being. Adam is wherein we are rational and so are the rational animal man, which now means that without our second or Adamic nature we are not rational and therefore timeless and eternal (in our right brain we are not time conscious). From this follows that our first death can be [just] our temporal ego and the second death is our eternal self.

Julio · 12-21-2009, 01:43 AM

My theory is similar to yours, in a way [I made it up, too].
Adam had understood that he needed a little more knowledge of what he thought would be good to help him invent some gardening tools, to look after the Garden, instead of having to use his poor nails all day long!...
His partner suggested the forbidden fruit, that, maybe, would give his brain a nice boost to discover other means to dig the ground, she wondered...!
She asked him regularly, "Do you want to remain stupid for all eternity, doing holes in the ground with your hands?!... Go, an Apple eat from the Tree, and then indeed intelligent be!!"

Chili · 12-21-2009, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

My theory is similar to yours, in a way [I made it up, too].
Adam had understood that he needed a little more knowledge of what he thought would be good to help him invent some gardening tools, to look after the Garden, instead of having to use his poor nails all day long!...
His partner suggested the forbidden fruit, that, maybe, would give his brain a nice boost to discover other means to dig the ground, she wondered...!
She asked him regularly, "Do you want to remain stupid for all eternity, doing holes in the ground with your hands?!... Go, an Apple eat from the Tree, and then indeed intelligent be!!"

. . . except that Adam did not understand before he had a mind of his own.

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12-20-2009, 08:50 AM	#25
aa5874 Contributor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: the fringe of the caribbean Posts: 18,988	[QUOTE=Petergdi%

12-20-2009, 09:44 AM	#27
Julio Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Johannesburg Posts: 5,187	WOW, Chili! I am going to need serious help here, from other members, soon, please! Where did you get all that esoteric stuff? Surely you did not come up with it by yourself? Maybe you did... What books did you read? You mean the epic described in those first chapter is altogether "a mystery" imbued with allegory and metaphors? Maybe... [Please, somebody help me here?] Did Adam know what was "eternal life", if he did not eat of the forbidden fruit?

12-21-2009, 01:43 AM	#29
Julio Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Johannesburg Posts: 5,187	My theory is similar to yours, in a way [I made it up, too]. Adam had understood that he needed a little more knowledge of what he thought would be good to help him invent some gardening tools, to look after the Garden, instead of having to use his poor nails all day long!... His partner suggested the forbidden fruit, that, maybe, would give his brain a nice boost to discover other means to dig the ground, she wondered...! She asked him regularly, "Do you want to remain stupid for all eternity, doing holes in the ground with your hands?!... Go, an Apple eat from the Tree, and then indeed intelligent be!!"

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