Toto

The Internet Infidels thank you for your plug.

So, consulting this website as to "rabbits + cud" we find more than you ever wanted to know about rabbits digestive systems

Chris Weimer

Bravo! But only if someone takes it for its intended purpose i.e. holy scripture. As literature, I must say it is very useful, otherwise I wouldn't devote my entire life to understanding it.

RED DAVE

From PoodleLovinPessimist:
That's exactly what happened.

Snapshot of obviously satanically inspired hyrax

RED DAVE

Garnet

I was wondering if someone was going to bring up the "rabbits eat their own shit so they chew cud" argument. I saw that one on another forum for the first time today and about fell out of my chair.

Boro Nut

But taking the bible literally they obviously did, which literally means it must have been before the fall, which literally means about summertime, or at a stretch spring , which literally means it's bollocks.

Alternatively, you could make the case that the ancient Greek/Hebrew word for chewing the cud has for centuries been incorrectly translated as the ancient Greek/Hebrew word for chewing the cud, instead of the biblically correct ancient true Greek/Hebrew word for not chewing the cud, although this argument has the slight disadvantage of being bollocks as well.

Much more likely is the evolutionary position, which is that hares and coneys have never, ever, chewed the cud, but that since the bible was written cows and camels have evolved into their present cud chewing forms from a common ancestor that ate its own pellets.

Boro Nut

PoodleLovinPessimist

Personally, I think you're talking through your hat, unless you're using "worth his salt" as a No True Scotsman dodge. But I won't press the point, it's really irrelevant.

Yes, that's precisely what I expect. Or rather, I expect the god to magically make their translations perfect.

Yeah, and we find that the translations are full of inconsistencies and outright errors, and some translations appear intentionally biased in favor of particular theological positions.

Very few people have the economic capacity to devote the up to 13 years of intensive scholarship necessary to comprehend the Bible. Unless you're volunteering to pay for my schooling and upkeep, by economic necessity, I cannot ascertain the meaning of the Christian Bible(s) myself. Therefore, you are demanding that I must take the words of people, not a god, on faith as to "correct" moral beliefs. This is indeed tyranny.

PoodleLovinPessimist

And even if I did read and comprehend the Christian Bible(s) in the original languages, I'm still subordinating my will and moral beliefs to the human beings who originally wrote the words, which is still tyranny.

If you want to be a slave to the superstitious fantasies of human writers long dead, human copyists long dead, human redactors long dead, human editors and anthologists long dead, human translators long dead, and human parasites... er... priests (at least they're still alive) who demand a privileged interpretive role, please feel free. Just don't ask me to do it, and don't expect me to feel anything praiseworthy about the idea of enslaving my will to other people, especially people long dead.

IvanJames

So how do you find a flawless way to deal with the problems that translating can lead to? The truth is, there really is no infallible way, and so any English translation of the Bible will always, to a tiny degree, be flawed. That is why churches pay people known as Pastors/Reverends to know the ORIGINAL hebrew/Greek the Bible was written in.

Well, I have a couple of personal biases here. One, I was raised Jewish. A lot of the Kosher laws have become folkloric rather than Biblical; I'm not complaining, this is my people and my culture of origin. But the meat/dairy thing is too much. For instance, tuna salad is considered dairy, even though there's nothing dairy in it. Also, a passage about the guys' next door's pagan rites (cooking a kid in its mother's milk) into an inability to eat chicken parmigiana. Why is beyond me, since chickens don't even give milk!

The other thing is the age of the languages. Even the experts may have no idea what missing nuances there were when the language was actually spoken. Also, experts usually have considerable differences of opinion. Case in point: You know the book "The Stranger," by Camus? It was written in French in (i think) the mid-1950s. Even though the author was around to talk to, and even though French is a modern, widely-understood language, I personally own 2 rather different translations.

Also remember that different churches--especially the "non-denominational" kind--have different standards of scholarship, and usually, pre-determined ideological viewpoints.

---Ivan

TheBigKahoona

"Yes, that's precisely what I expect. Or rather, I expect the god to magically make their translations perfect."

But that is impossible because of the basic fact that no perfect translation into english is possible given the many differences between the two languages. If you wonder why God created all these crazy languages then go read the part in Genesis about the tower of Babel, but now we are REALLY off topic.

"Yeah, and we find that the translations are full of inconsistencies and outright errors,

Some translations may have blatant errors, but not ALL translations have blatant errors. Unfortunately, none of them are perfect that is why it is helpful to have somebody around who knows HEbrew or Greek.

...some translations appear intentionally biased in favor of particular theological positions."

If you are afraid a particular translation is biased, in one way or another get a different one.

"Very few people have the economic capacity to devote the up to 13 years of intensive scholarship necessary to comprehend the Bible. Unless you're volunteering to pay for my schooling and upkeep, by economic necessity, I cannot ascertain the meaning of the Christian Bible(s) myself. Therefore, you are demanding that I must take the words of people, not a god, on faith as to "correct" moral beliefs."

Christians and Jews do not hold a monopoly on Bible translations. I haven't looked but I beleive this very site might even have there own translations of various Biblical passages. I'm sure you need not be afraid of a moderator here trying to shove moralistic propoganda down your throat. Once you have a translation you trust, the interpretation is all up to you. However, with regards to Faith, if you aren't willing to have Faith of any kind then I suggest you don't waste your time.


"Just don't ask me to do it, and don't expect me to feel anything praiseworthy about the idea of enslaving my will to other people, especially people long dead."

I'm sorry but I think that I have kept my proseletyzing to a minimum so far. Nowhere on this thread have I asked you to accept anything regarding my religion, I just answered the question originally posted which asked for a conservative xtian response.

IvanJames

""

Wow. That's one angry hyrax.
---IvanJames