Toto

There are questions as to how male-oriented the originals are.

There are some articles here on the technical issues of translation, with a bibliography of articles on both sides of the controvery.

DCHindley

It is directed towards use in worship services, where it is felt that gender neutrality will resonate better with women who are now much more a part of regular decision-making society than they were when the NT was originally written. Everything was then written from the POV of a male dominated society where women were an appendage of a man. The modern resistance comes from threatened white males who already feel they are loosing power to those of other nationalities and sex.

DCH

Roger Pearse

Indeed so. There can be nothing to be said for translating one text in accordance with the principles of an alien ideology invented 2,000 years later. It's equivalent to editing the text.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

bacht

More to the point, women are becoming the majority of congregants, the majority of consumers, and half of the voters. Modern Western society has discarded most of the social traditions of classical and medieval times (marriage, "patriarchal" education, separation of gender spheres) so it's hardly surprising that the fastest growing Christian denominations (evangelical) are accommodating their customer base.

Ironically this may reflect the primitive church, if the NT is trustworthy, since both Jesus and Paul are said to have had female followers and supporters.

Toto

All translation is interpretation, by necessity. It is not clear to me that the gender neutral translations are further from the original than many other translations.

How do most Christians reconcile Paul's statement that in Christ there is no male or female, with the later (possible interpolation) that tells women to be silent in church and defer to their husbands?

bacht

Good question. The recent interest in Mary Magdelene also highlights the gender issue, as does the identification of God or Christ as 'males'; the gospels almost seem to portray Jesus as androgyne (cf the married apostles like Peter)

semiopen

I made a post on this subject a few weeks ago in Justin's Spurious Prophecy.

This is a good discussion on this, favoring the non virgin translation.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/is714a.html

As the detail tends to show, the meaning isn't clear. The word "almah" is close in meaning to maiden, which implies virgin.

The translation of almah as virgin is questionable/dubious but not obviously wrong.

DCHindley

Toto,

This is not a translation issue, I don't think. A male dominated cultue will generate male doninated speech.

On your other issue, inclusiveness in a group (Christians, or Israelites, depending on whether you go for the traditional or non-traditional interpretation of Paul's audience) is different than the role one plays in that group.

The Gilded Lilly Playhouse (not a real Playhouse) accepts members of all sexes, races, etc, but the roles individual members play in their productions may be affected by sex, race, or etc. This is closely akin to the repeated arguments that individual Christians are part of a body, each with their own unique contribution, none of which can be called better or worse than the others. After all, we cannot all be boobs or penises. Whose gonna do the seeing, or hearing, or grasping, or breathing, or feeling ... all things necesary for the members to function as a healthy body?

DCH

spin

Actually, the issues are not mutually exclusive. The word for brother and for sister in Greek is the same, except for the gender ending. In such situations it is customary to use the male plural form for both male siblings and mixed siblings. When the new testament talks of servants (douloi), for example at Cana for the wedding feast, is it only referring to male servants or to both male and female servants? The plural is always the masculine ending. (Note to the contrary the specific Acts 2:18) How does one know that adelfoi refers only to males?


spin

dog-on

The statement telling women to shut up is just another anti-marcionite insertion.