Freethought & Rationalism Archive

SLD · 01-23-2009, 02:51 PM

I was wondering if any scholars have ever tried to draw any connections between these two ancient myths. On the one hand they seem to take place during the same time frame (~ 1200 BC). They are both sort of founding national myths that involve great leaders who make years long journeys to their traditional homelands. On the other hand, one is about travelling through a desert and the other through an ocean (although that may be a similarity). One involves a huge nation travelling and the other a small group of followers. The starting points and ending points are different and the individual stories along the way are different.

Both seem to have originally been told in verse and then later written down (again, roughly around the same time frame (~700 BC).

so I wondered if it was possible if one had influenced the other and whether any biblical or other ancient scholars had studied them in more detail to see if there was any indication of a relationship.

thanks!

SLD

Toto · 01-23-2009, 03:36 PM

lecture on Homer

Quote:

It would be a mistake to read this text [the Odyssey] as a Greek equivalent to the Exodus and Genesis.

Not that you can't find a lot of term papers online comparing and contrasting.

andrewcriddle · 01-24-2009, 01:55 AM

I think one difference is that the Exodus is presented as having major consequences, as the account of how the nation of Israel came into being.
Although the final return of Odysseus is a happy ending for him and his family it does not seem to have much wider consequences.

When Virgil rewrote the Illiad and Odyssey as the Aeneid he made the wanderings of Aeneas have major significance. They lead to the founding of the Roman state. It is that sort of significance of the Journey that the Exodus has but the Odyssey lacks.

Andrew Criddle

Roger Pearse · 01-24-2009, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLD

I was wondering if any scholars have ever tried to draw any connections between these two ancient myths.

Only those who have never read either, I suspect. It sort of shows the worthlessness of the whole approach, if two so dissimilar narratives can be compared and 'connections' supposed.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Doug Shaver · 01-24-2009, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLD

Both seem to have originally been told in verse

In what sense does the Exodus story "seem" to have originally been told in verse?

Doug Shaver · 01-24-2009, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLD

so I wondered if it was possible if one had influenced the other

Possible? Sure.

But I would strongly advise resisting the urge to model your theorizing on the example of apologists who are fond of inferring "probably was" from any "could have been" that they can think of.

andrewcriddle · 01-24-2009, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLD

Both seem to have originally been told in verse

In what sense does the Exodus story "seem" to have originally been told in verse?

The OP is possibly referring to material like the Song of Moses in Exodus 15.

Andrew Criddle

Clivedurdle · 01-24-2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

epicliterary genre

Main

long narrative poem recounting heroic deeds, although the term has also been loosely used to describe novels, such as Tolstoy’s War and Peace, and motion pictures, such as Eisenstein’s Ivan the Terrible. In literary usage, the term encompasses both oral and written compositions. The prime examples of the oral epic are Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey. Outstanding examples of the written epic include Virgil’s Aeneid and Lucan’s Pharsalia in Latin; Chanson de Roland in medieval French; Ariosto’s Orlando Furioso and Tasso’s Gerusalemme liberata in Italian; Poema (or Cantar) de mio Cid in Spanish; and Milton’s Paradise Lost and Spenser’s Faerie Queene in English. There are also seriocomic epics, such as the Morgante of a 15th-century Italian poet, Pulci, and the pseudo-Homeric Battle of the Frogs and Mice. Another distinct group is made up of the so-called beast epics—narrative poems written in Latin in the Middle Ages and dealing with the struggle between a cunning fox and a cruel and stupid wolf. Underlying all of the written forms is some trace of an oral character, partly because of the monumental persuasiveness of Homer’s example but more largely because the epic was, in fact, born of an oral tradition. It is on the oral tradition of the epic form that this article will focus.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...ource=googleSL

As the Jews were clearly indigenous, I think it is clear they made up a national history when in exile by the rivers of Babylon, using existing and very common epic themes.

I wonder if they were actually moaning about the Babylonians....

01-23-2009, 02:51 PM	#1
SLD Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 4,109	Exodus and The Odyssey I was wondering if any scholars have ever tried to draw any connections between these two ancient myths. On the one hand they seem to take place during the same time frame (~ 1200 BC). They are both sort of founding national myths that involve great leaders who make years long journeys to their traditional homelands. On the other hand, one is about travelling through a desert and the other through an ocean (although that may be a similarity). One involves a huge nation travelling and the other a small group of followers. The starting points and ending points are different and the individual stories along the way are different. Both seem to have originally been told in verse and then later written down (again, roughly around the same time frame (~700 BC). so I wondered if it was possible if one had influenced the other and whether any biblical or other ancient scholars had studied them in more detail to see if there was any indication of a relationship. thanks! SLD

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

01-24-2009, 01:55 AM	#3
andrewcriddle Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Birmingham UK Posts: 4,876	I think one difference is that the Exodus is presented as having major consequences, as the account of how the nation of Israel came into being. Although the final return of Odysseus is a happy ending for him and his family it does not seem to have much wider consequences. When Virgil rewrote the Illiad and Odyssey as the Aeneid he made the wanderings of Aeneas have major significance. They lead to the founding of the Roman state. It is that sort of significance of the Journey that the Exodus has but the Odyssey lacks. Andrew Criddle

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.