TollHouse

Do you think Superman is lying or telling the truth?

JohNeo

I will say this in the calmest and most dignified way that I can:

Salieri, what you apparently do not understand is that most atheists don't regard Jesus as a real person any more than we consider a fictitious character as real. There is compelling evidence, old and new, that the Jesus Christ presented in the New Testament never existed in the first place but is the culmination of messianic folklore found in the OT and elsewhere. Only Christians can believe that Jesus Christ was an authority figure of any measure that would still have authority over us. Written historical accounts of the life of Jesus Christ are almost non-existent outside of biblical scripture.

There are a number of threads on these forums that discuss these ideas--it is up to you to investigate them and decide for yourself whether they are valid or not. If you are willing to consider these points and make an informed and rational debate, then perhaps I might take your points more seriously.

One of the previous posts hit the nail on the head, asking if you are for or against Santa Claus. You can't be for or against a character that you don't think is real. An atheist can be for or against the messages attributed to Jesus as they are written in scripture, but a critical-thinking atheist will at least consider these messages piecemeal and NOT as a bundle of statements that must either be agreed upon fully, or fully rejected.

Just so you know, I am for loving our neighbors as ourselves. That pretty much makes me against hating my neighbor and hating myself. But I can't love God with my whole heart, soul, mind and body because I no longer believe that the God of the Bible exists. That does not mean I hate God, either. I can't hate God any more than I hate the tooth fairy.

I hope that makes sense. My words are not to offend you, but only to offer one perspective of atheism. Just because I disagree with your theistic belief does not make me against you as a human being.

JohNeo

Magnus Vile

A question, if I may.

Would all those who heard the infallible words of Christ, and saw both his miracles and his resurrection, please raise your hand?

Anyone? :huh:

Also, anyone that manages to read the bible, while wearing a blindfold, please report to superhuman registration. You know who you are. (I suppose though, that Salieri may be referring to a braile edition though. in which case, carry on. )

Salieri, just out of interest, considering the fact that you have only read the words of Jesus, as written by fallible humans, how can you be certain of their accuracy? Even if Jesus' words were perfect, I understand that you hold the belief that humans cannot achieve perfection, and that would sadly include transcription and translation, especially when the books of the Bible were written a significant time after the death of Jesus, at the hands of religious fundamentalists. (Now, speaking for all atheists called Magnus Vile, we'd have left him alone, or maybe invited him out for a beer, but those religious types...)

Or are humans sometimes infallible?

Jack the Bodiless

Salieri:

Are you now prepared to retract your claim to have been "an atheist for 38 years"?

If not: please explain how an atheist can believe that the words of Jesus MUST be of divine origin.

Were you entirely unaware of Jesus, or his alleged teachings, while living in the American Midwest for 38 years?