Magus55

And why isn't Bible prophecy valid? I guess the Bible saying Damascus, Syria would be destroyed, and currently Israel is ready to blow the city to dust, is just a coincidence huh?

Demigawd

No, it's more along the line of "our holy book says we will do this. So, we'd better start doing this." There's nothing particularly miraculous about self-fulfilling prophecy.

Autonemesis

In fact, Damascus is not destroyed. But facts never deterred your belief before, so go ahead and believe that an intact city fulfills a biblical prophecy of destruction. See if I care.

Magus55

Yeah, i'm sure Israel would risk nuclear war just to fullfill a prophecy that isn't even real. If they have to consciously go out and make it come true, it isn't a prophecy. Sorry, i'm not buying that lame excuse. No one incites war to make a book come true. Next rediculous excuse please?

Demigawd

Uh, Magus55, you do realize that so-called prophecies that involve people have to have people act in order for things to get underway, yes? In your scenario, are the Israelis just supposed to wake up one morning and find Damascus mysteriously blown up in a nuclear storm?

Take a group of people, tell them over and over again such-and-such will happen in the future, and you better believe this group will be working towards that future. That's basic psychology at work.

Mageth

No one incites war to make a book come true.

While I'm not certain that blanket statement is true (one has to wonder about the Crusades, and about the Christian Right's interest in, even encouragement of, events in the Middle East over the last half century), what is true is that people often interpret history to "make a book come true."

All my life I listened to conservative Christians expounding on the Cold War, and now the problems in the Middle East, as ultimately leading up to the Apocalypse. While not necessarily inciting war, this outlook on events certainly does not do much to discourage such war. And, as it seems that today we have a leader (Dubya) who apparently buys into the apocalyptic prophecies, I worry that your blanket statement may soon be proven definitely not true.

Mageth

Well, no; it simply doesn't work that way; it's not impossible to "deny God". More correctly stated, it's not "denying God", it's recognizing God for what it is - a myth, a concept, and not an extant being. I'm living proof, as I've gone through that transition, and do not deny my own existence. Nor, to be correct, do I "deny God", BTW; I recognize the god myth for what it is. One can still find "meaning", if one wishes, in the myth of God. Lots of people do.

There are "outs". For example, you could recognize that, in a sense, you are "god" - i.e. that "god the myth" (or whatever you prefer to call it) is within you, and perhaps everyone else, but is not a separate, extant being. Or that "god the myth" is a product of human consciousness - e.g. an "archetype" (see Jung, or Campbell) that you, like many others, wrongly project into an antrhopomorphic "existence".

Hopeful Monsters

I'm totally against restricting or banning Magus55 or others - he is not abusive, it's all about debate and freely expressed views, and iidb would have no dynamism and animation whatsoever without theists entering the lions' den.

That said � in one recent post, one theist seemed to me to be asking of us:-

"What have you done to come to Christ? Where have you looked? What have you read?" etc

- and I completely lost it at such (seeming) proselytising.

So I�m no more tolerant than average.

Mageth

That said � in one recent post, one theist seemed to me to be asking of us:-

"What have you done to come to Christ? Where have you looked? What have you read?" etc

Got a link?

Hopeful Monsters

Here you go Mageth - read from Here for several posts onwards.

You'll have a good laugh and I'll just sit here in London Town and be totally !!!

We all make errors of judgement