Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Balrog of Morgoth · 01-04-2004, 07:30 PM

On second thought have fun.

I know I worded that badly, oh well.

scombrid · 01-05-2004, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Larmore
Either everything we see was produced by natural means via the big bang/abiogenesis/evolution etc. or everything we see was created by an omnipotent/intelligent creator. These two modalities exhaust all the possibilities period.

Two possibilities eh? Lots of 'sub-possibilities' then. Which creator? Who/What created the creator? Describe? Need the creator really be omniscient/omnipotent omni-whatever? Please detail the methodology and results that led to these conclusions.

MrDarwin · 01-05-2004, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Larmore
For instance we all have to agree that there are really only two scenarios for our and the universe's existence. Either everything we see was produced by natural means via the big bang/abiogenesis/evolution etc. or everything we see was created by an omnipotent/intelligent creator. These two modalities exhaust all the possibilities period.

I don't agree these are the only two possibilities. I see numerous possibilities:

1. God and the universe are one and the same, and the dichotomy is a false one to begin with.

2. There is/was a god that created the universe, but everything since then has happened entirely naturally; the creator is a passive observer.

3. There is/was a creator god(s) but that god has since been supplanted by other gods.

4. There were/are two or more deities that have cooperated/competed in the creation of the universe.

5. This god or these gods may or may not still exist, and if he/she/it/they still exist, may or may not have any affect on the natural world. This god or these gods may or may not be omnipotent, omniscient, or even intelligent.

6. There is/was a god(s), but this god or gods is/are the result of the existence of the universe, rather than vice versa.

MollyMac · 01-05-2004, 10:52 AM

Jim I find your argument on a par with:

30,000 people just died in an earthquake. Co-incidence?

My ten year old cousin died of cancer. Co-incidence?

My sister suffered two excrutiatingly painful ectopic pregnancies which have left her childless and sterile. Co-incidence?

The so-called 'intelligent designer' is a cruel sadist and some elements of his design suggest he's also an idiot.

So why worship him?

(And where he did he spring from anyway?)

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01-04-2004, 07:30 PM	#71
Balrog of Morgoth Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 496	On second thought have fun. I know I worded that badly, oh well.

01-05-2004, 10:52 AM	#74
MollyMac Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London, England Posts: 2,125	Jim I find your argument on a par with: 30,000 people just died in an earthquake. Co-incidence? My ten year old cousin died of cancer. Co-incidence? My sister suffered two excrutiatingly painful ectopic pregnancies which have left her childless and sterile. Co-incidence? The so-called 'intelligent designer' is a cruel sadist and some elements of his design suggest he's also an idiot. So why worship him? (And where he did he spring from anyway?)

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