Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 04-02-2012, 11:55 PM

Marqe identifies the first day of the year as connected with the creation of man (as with R. Jehoshua in tractate Rosh haShanah 10 and many other Jewish texts):

Quote:

The first day for the creation of man and for the praise which he rendered; in it he was delivered. (Mimar Marqe 1.9)

The previous five days apparently were intercalendar days? The traditional Samaritan liturgical reading on the first day of the first month was Genesis apparently

Quote:

Thus the beginning of the months is made like The Beginning (BERESITH) , which was made the start of Creation.

On the first day I created heaven and earth;
On the second day I spread out the firmament on high;
On the third day I prepared a dish and gathered into it all kinds of good things;
On the fourth day I established signs, fixing times, completing my greatness;
On the fifth day I revealed many marvels from the waters;
On the sixth day I caused to come up out of the ground various living creatures:
On the seventh day I perfected holiness. I rested in it in my own glory. I made it my special portion. I was glorious in it. I established your name then also—my name and yours therein as one, for I established it and you are crowned with it.
Therefore on the first day of the first month make it known and give thanks for it. When you are in it (the first month, first day), you will begin with (the section of) the Creation of the World,(= Gen. i. i-ii. 3, which has a place in all the liturgical orders for Sabbath) for I am like one who looses and I will untie the manacles of all those who have assembled for deliverance.
The great prophet Moses stood up in the assembly of Israel and instructed them about deliverance. He told them to prepare themselves for the time of departure on the tenth of the month, to prepare to sacrifice the offering, and take in the tenth of the month a perfect one year old lamb (Ex. xii. 3-5). (Mimar Marqe 1.9)

stephan huller · 04-03-2012, 12:14 AM

What I am starting to see is that fire HAD TO BE present at the Christian baptism ritual because it is a recreation of Adam after the creation of cosmic man on the sixth day (there were two creations of man in Genesis)

sotto voce · 04-03-2012, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

What I am starting to see is that fire HAD TO BE present at the Christian baptism ritual

People like to think that Christianity has ritual, but ritual is the amusing ostentation of wannabes. Christianity is known by fruits, i.e. genuine personal goodness. Those were baptised in water who demonstrated those fruits. Today, the fruits are taken as evidence of enough of genuine faith, and water is left for ordinary purposes. Christianity was not known as 'the way (of life)' by its own, and 'atheism' by others, for no reason.

Quote:

because it is a recreation of Adam after the creation of cosmic man on the sixth day (there were two creations of man in Genesis)

There's the ultimate nonsense of fundamentalism. It's April 3rd!

andrewcriddle · 04-03-2012, 12:22 PM

Hi Stephan

Is the Western custom of plunging the lighted paschal candle into the baptismal font relevant ?

See The Rites of Christian Initiation by Maxwell Johnson.

Andrew Criddle

stephan huller · 04-09-2012, 10:53 AM

Some more interesting references in Marqe:

Quote:

Take from me divinity and with it make your prophethood strong. I am He who gave (new) life to Adam after his death and treated him with pity— when he said / heard the sound of Thee in the garden, and I was afraid . . . and I hid myself (Gen. iii. 1 0 ; Targ.)—for the second time, because it was necessary. [1.2]

Notice also the echoes of Simon Magus:

Quote:

Therefore the body of Adam was taken from a holy place (Gerizim). By reason of this God said concerning him, "To till the ground from which he was taken" (Gen. iii. 2 3 ) . The Goodly Mount is holier than all mountains. Since the beginning of Creation it has been magnified with holiness. Jacob in holiness learned and encountered it; when he saw what he saw he said, "This is none other than the house of God" (Gen.xxviii. 1 7 ) .

There are SEVEN BEST THINGS in the world which the True One chose and set apart as divine; the light, the Sabbath, Mount Gerizim, Adam, the two stone tablets, the great prophet Moses, and Israel.

The light is from the fire, for fire is the origin b y which everything is controlled and made to exist.
The two tablets are from the Divine One. He produced them by His power from the will of His mind.
The Sabbath is the most special among all days, for He set it apart by itself.
Adam is the most special of all creatures, for from him prophets and righteous men arise in the world.
Mount Gerizim is especially holy. God made it the dwelling place of His glory.
Moses is a special one who magnifies every special thing.
Israel is special among all peoples. God chose them and made them select.[2.10]

Notice the role of angels in the creation of Adam as well as 'the Glory':

Quote:

Let us now be in awe at the speech presented by the A N G E L S , also by the GLORY. The G L O R Y said.'The great name is within me and I do not shun him who is rebellious in action. When a man deviates, I forfeit him, and thus it is said of me, "For he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him" (Ex. xxiii. 2 1 ) .

The A N G E L S also were saying, "O congregation, hold fast to your Lord, and serve in faith, for in our hands is salvation, in our hands destruction, in our hands relief, in our hands weariness, in our hands killing, in our hands love. All this in our hands! Keep guard of yourself and learn the way of the True One. You need not enquire what we have done from Adam to Noah, with Abraham and Lot, with Isaac and the people of Sodom, with Jacob and Joseph and the great prophet Moses in all that he did.

We were with Adam; we magnified his original status. With Noah we appeared and we honoured him. With Abraham we were when he proclaimed. So with Isaac in his being increased in goodness, and we met Jacob too in a group. We were sent only to these good, perfect ones. You need not enquire about the deed of Lot and the people of Sodom, for they appear (in Scripture) before you.

If you seek knowledge of what they possess, come to Jacob. On the ladder of his dream we were ascending and descending, and the Glory was standing above it. A great Blessing was proclaimed (Gen. xxviii. 1 3 ff.). In his sojourn with Laban and the meeting with Esau we advised him, and the Glory magnified him and blessed him in the Yabbok (river) and at Luz, and announced to him the coming in and the going out, and all this was perfection to him and to his descendants after him, generation after generation. [3.5]

Notice the mention of angels 'magnifying and blessing him' in the river Jabbok. This may well be another baptism reference. The fact that it isn't the Jordan is irrelevant. You have angels, glory and blessing of a Patriarch. I wonder when this is thought to have occurred.

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04-03-2012, 12:14 AM	#12
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	What I am starting to see is that fire HAD TO BE present at the Christian baptism ritual because it is a recreation of Adam after the creation of cosmic man on the sixth day (there were two creations of man in Genesis)

04-03-2012, 12:22 PM	#14
andrewcriddle Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Birmingham UK Posts: 4,876	Hi Stephan Is the Western custom of plunging the lighted paschal candle into the baptismal font relevant ? See The Rites of Christian Initiation by Maxwell Johnson. Andrew Criddle

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