ARBYTER

When are you going to respond to this :

http://www.evcforum.net/ubb/Forum5/H...393-9.html#124


Where is the website that you have been touting/created ?

Jet Black

this one?:

http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm

you can bring the converation over here if you want, since it looks like they will be locking that thread.

Oolon Colluphid

If and when I can be bothered. I've more or less given up on both Willow (hopeless case: I've already made my case a few times, and he/she can't grasp it) and EvC (since the over-reaction from Moose: I can't be arsed with a forum in which such an obvious joke can't be made -- I cannot guarantee to restrain myself in future similar situations, so it's best I don't go there. And will try not to, at least as long as there's a Moose loose aboot the hoose. Shouldn't have gone back, really.)

And anyway, it took Willow a few months to reply to me, so I don't see the rush.

Right here.

TTFN, Oolon

Jet Black

LOL, that post by phatboy was absolute comedy gold how he could type that and not see the double meanings that people would drag out of it I do not know.

Oolon Colluphid

And it may work. At least, it has generated some nice crunchy argument. To wit, the following reply to my last one above:

*******************************
FiRST OFF YOUR STARTING FROM A FALSE PREMISE, WHICH IS THAT GOD IS CONTINUOUSLY CREATING, HE STOPPED CREATING THINGS FROM SCRATCH OK? SO MUCH FOR YOUR GOD MADE LESS THAN OPTIMUM WHATEVERS.

2) HELLO DUDE, GOD CANT USE MUTATIONS? SO GOD CANT ALLOW THE FORMATION OF A MUTATION THAT CAUSE HIS ORIGINAL DESIGN TO PERFORM INCORRECTLY YET STILL PERFORM? I MEAN THIS DOESNT TAKE BEING FORGIVEN THIS IS JUST COMMON SENSE. WHEN A WINDOWS COMPUTER SCREWS UP IT HAS BUILT IN FAIL SAFES SO THAT IT CAN STILL WORK DESPITE THE CORRUPTION. AND THE USERS OFTEN LEAVE THE NO WORKING JUNK IN THEIR COMPUTER BECAUSE THEY CAN USE IT AT A LATER TIME

3) GOD HAS ALLOWED THINGS FOR PEOPLE TO STUMBLE ON. ITS ASSANINE OF U TO JUMP TO CONLCUSIONS SO QUICKLY WITHOUT EXPLORING ALL THE OTHER ALTERNATIVES. YOU EVER HEARD THE EXPRESSION "THINGS ARE NOT ALWAYS AS THEY APPEAR TO BE" OR "DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER" more accurately however is the way Jesus put it "Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment"

4) What in the hell makes u think God designed things to be perfectly efficient FOREVER, does the bible say he made flesh to last forever? Shit breaks down, hello, last time I checked the bible said that.

how can god make mistakes? that doesn't fit the definition of God,

That, m’dear chap, is my point. Therefore, since there are indeed mistakes -- foolish, pointless, overly-convoluted and/or dangerous ‘designs’ -- in living organisms, then whatever else is the explanation of them, ‘goddidit’ isn’t it.

YES I KNOW YOUR POINT YOUR MISSING MINE, THE POINT IS ANIMALS AS WELL AS HUMANS ARE ACQUIRING MUTATIONS, GOD ISNT AND DIDNT MAKE MUTATIONS, ISN'T THAT A NO BRAINER?

nor can an animal that has lost genetic information

Please could you define ‘genetic information’? Thanks!

UH LOOK UP INFORMATION IN THE DICTIONARY, THERES ON ONLINE ONE HELLO? IF U DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL INFORMATION IS HOW ABOUT SHUTTING UP WITH THE GOD MAKES MISTAKES THINGS? WOW!

and doesnt perform exactly as it did when it contained all its genes

But most critters contain vastly more genetic material than they need to make their bodies.

MEANING WHAT? SHIT THAT JUST BLEW RIGHT OVER YOUR DAMN HEAD, FIRST OF ALL HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW WHAT ALL THOSE GENES DO, AND WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN THEY ARE ALL USELESS? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GENETIC CODE MASTER MAN? SHIT IF YOU ARE THAT SMART CAN YOU PLEASE WEED OUT ALL THE BUGS IN XP? BULLSHIT.

YOU THE GENE CODE MASTER HAVE FOUND OUT THIS INFMORATION IS USELESS? WHAT THE HELL? THE GENES BECOME CORRUPT DUH ITS GOING TO HAVE UNSED INFORMATION, NOT ONLY THAT WHO SAYS ITS USLESS? HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW THEY ARNT DORMANT OR PASSED ON AND LATER USED? MY GOD. IT WOULDNT MATTER IF THERE WAS 10 "USESLESS" GENES OR 3000000000000000. THE NUMBER DOESNT SAY ANYTHING, NOT ONLY THAT IF THERE ARE THAT MANY SINCE WHEN IN THE HELL DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ALL DO? IF YOU TAKE BACK WHAT YOU SAID AND SAY OH WELL THERE ARNT THAT MANY, WHAT WOULD THAT MATTER EITHER? YOUR PLAYING DAMN GOD IF I FIND THIS OUT, DAMN GOD IF I FIND THAT OUT. STOP BEING BIASED.


Many of these bits are manifestly turned-off genes.

YES WOW WHICH MEANS? GOD ISNT ALLOWED TO MAKE TEMPORARILY UNUSED GENES? WHAT THE HELL? AND HOW IN THE DAMN HELL DO YOU KNOW THAT EVEN IF THESE GENES ARE NONSENSE, THAT IT ISN'T THERE DUE TO THE ACCUMULATION OF USELESS INFORMATION DUE TO THE CONTINUOUS CORRUPTION OF A DNA, WHICH DO YOUR HOMEWORK, IS HAPPENING.

NOT ONLY THAT SINCE WHEN IN THE HELL DID YOU FIND OUT THAT GOD DIDN'T ALLOW THESE EXTRA BITS OF INFORMATION TO BE THERE SO THAT WE COULD FIND NOVEL PURPOSES FOR THEM?

SO YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT ASTEROIDS BECAUSE THERE ARE ALOT (LOL) ARE USELESS? SO GOD MADE TO MANY STARS LOL? SO GOD MADE TO MUCH SKIN, GOD SHOULDN'T HAVE MADE NIPPLES ON MEN BECAUSE YOU DON'T APPRECIATE THEM BEING THERE AND NOT DOING ANYTHING FOR YOU? OMG...

UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY KNOW THE FUTURE AND CAN TELL ME WE WILL NEVER MINE ASTEROIDS AND THAT THE BIBLE SAYS NOTHING ABOUT BEAUTY OR GOD SHOWING HIS POWER OFF SO TO SPEAK, LET ME KNOW, OTHERWISE...

We know this because it’s possible to turn them on again, as with bird teeth (www.devbio.com/article.php?ch=6&id=56), bird complete fibulas and separate tarsals (www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/Hampe_experiment.htm), and the fly halteres example.

YES YES IM NOT IGNORANT THANK YOU.

Yet their bodies work just fine without these genes.

SEE WHAT I JUST SAID ABOVE

AND WORK FINE? UH NO THEY DON'T WORK JUST FINE, WE ARE SUBJECT TO CANCERS AND ALL KINDS OF DISEASES, IM SORRY DUDE BUT THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU KNOW THAT THESE GENES WERENT REDUNDANTS OR BACK UPS IN OLDER TIMES, IT IS A WELL KNOWN AND VERY DOCUMENTED FACT THAT HUMANS ONCE REACHED HEIGHTS OF OVER 25 FEET. NOW UNLESS YOU FIND THE GENES FOR THOSE, PLEASE DON'T GO SAYING THE TURNED OFF ONES ARE ALL JUNK.

I suggest you look up ‘pseudogenes’ in any genetics textbook.

ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE

They are not lost; they’re still there, but deactivated. And crucially, what they make is things that the organism does not now have, does not need, and, according to creation, never did have.

OMG LOL, YOU KNOW THE HISTORY OF GENETIC EVOLUTION LOL, NO EVOLUTIONIST KNOWS THAT LOL, ITS ALL SPECULATION, IF THEY DID HOLY SHIT KISS CHRISITAINITY GOODBYE AND CLAIM YOUR NOBEL PRIZE LOL, WOW.

Please explain how a loss of genetic information might cause a retina to be inverted... and still work so well that most creationists deny there’s even a problem!

DID I SAY LOSS OF G.I. WOULD CAUSE AN INVERTED RETINA? AND HOLY MOTHER OF MOTHERS, LISTEN TO YOURSELF, CAN YOU TELL ME HOW MUTATIONS THAT ARE REQUIRED FOR A HUMAN TO EVOLVE BEAT BORELS LAW? DO YOU KNOW THE FIGURES FRANCIS CRICK AND CARL SAGAN CAME UP WITH CONCERNING THE ODDS OF EVOLUTION? IF YOU CANNOT EXPLAIN WHY CRICK AND SAGANS SEPERATE FIGURES ARE WRONG, YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS ASKING ME HOW A MUTATION LEAD TO A LESS EFFICIENT FUNCTION (NOT DESIGN). YOU WHOLE JACK ASS POINT IS THAT MUTATIONS LEAD TO USEFUL TRAITS, NOT PERFECT ONES, IF YOU CANNOT EXPLAIN HOW A MUTATION LEAD TO A NOT PERFECTLY EFFICIENT DESIGN YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT IS LOST AS WELL BY YOUR LOGIC, HOW THE HELL DID THAT GET PAST YOU?

HERE NOW READ THIS:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home...3n1_retina.asp


How might a loss of genetic information put the parts belonging to both sexes [turn them] into single-sex flowers? (It must be that way round, because the plants are so good at being separate sexes!)

No no no, its not that way just because THEY ARNT VERY GOOD AT IT, when your dealing with God give him some credit ok, you'd think hed be clever and creative, damn your arrogant.

How did it remove penguin pouches and cause marsupial infants to be born from the usual orifice?

WHO THE HELL SAID THEY REMOVED PENGUIN POUCHES? DUDE YOUR SAYING YOU BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION, DUDE IM A CREATIONIST DUH? I DONT BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION SO WHY ARE YOU MAKING REFERENCE TO ANIMALS THAT YOU CANT PROVE THEY WERE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THAT DID HAVE SUCH FEATURES? GOD MAN!

And if our post-auricular muscles and coccyx are information-degenerate features, tell me what sort of creature we used to be!

YOUR ARGUING IDIOCY AGAIN, YOUR ARGUING THAT WE USED TO BE ANIMALS (AND STILL ARE) SAYS WHO, IM A CREATIONIST, NOT ONLY THAT WHAT THE HELL? WHO GIVES A RATS AS IF I COULD POINT MY EARS TO THE GROUND, WOULD THAT MEAN I WAS A RAT? MY GOD HOW STUPID CAN YOU BE? WANT MORE PROOF? IF WE LOST THOSE MSUCLES COMPLETELY WHAT THE HELL WOULD THAT MEAN LOL? THAT WE WERE NO LONGER HUMAN LOL? IF A PERSON IS BORN WITHOUT LEGS WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN? HES A WEIRD FROG OR SOME NEW SPECIES? OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGG

be attributed to god making a mistake.

HUH?

That’s right. God doesn’t make mistakes.

OMG YOU DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT THE HELL A MISTAKE IS. THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT GOD DOES NOT MAKE MISTAKES YAY, BUT YOU ARE SAYING A DEFECT IS MISTAKE. A DEFECT IS NOT A MISTAKE, LOOK UP THEM UP IN THE DICTIONARY. NOT ONLY THAT YOU ARE CONFUSING INTENTION WITH DEFECT. UNLESS GOD SAID I DIDN'T INTEND FOR DEFECTS AND MUTATIONS TO HAPPEN THEN YOU HAVE NO CASE.

FURTHERMORE DO OUR MUSCLES MOVE OUR EARS? YES THEY DO, DOES THE BIBLE SAY GOD DIDNT INTEND FOR US TO DO CUTE THINGS WITH OUR EARS? DOES THE BIBLE SAY GOD DIDNT CREATE THINGS SO THAT THEY WOULD MAKE PEOPLE LAUGH, OR ENTERTAIN OR FOR BEAUTY?
WHAT THE HELL MAN YOUR A MASTER ASSUMER AND BASING YOUR ARGUMENTS ON ASSUMPTIONS.

So these things were not shaped by any gods. ‘God’ is an inappropriate explanation for them.

BLAH BLAH SEE EVERYTHING I SAID.

Since when is letting something degenerate on purpose "a mistake"?

When it ‘degenerates’ yet still works remarkably well...

DOES NOT PROVE A DAMN THING, SHOW ME HOW WHAT YOU JUST SAID DIRECTLY RELATES TO GOD LETTING SOMETHING HAPPEN ON PURPOSE, YOUR REPEATING AND USING CURCULAR REASONING, NOT ONLY THAT YOUR IGNORING COMMON SENSE, THAT HAS NOTHIGN TO DO WITH GOD READ WHAT I SAID EARLY ON ABOVE ABOUT WINDOWS. INF WINDOWS DEGENERATES AND STILL WORKS WELL (MINE IS RUNNING IN SAFE MODE ONLY) DOES THAT MEAN NO ONE CREATED WINDOWS IT EVOLVED FROM RANDOM BITS OF WHATEVERS?

when these degenerations are actually useful (ie look like designs)...

WRONG THAT IS CIRCULAR REASONING, YOUR SAYING BECAUSE IT SEEEEEEMS LIKE WHATEVER TO YOU THAN THEREFORE GOD DIDNT DESIGN WHATEVER, SORRY DUDE YOU NEED MORE EVIDENCE THAN "BECAUSE IT SEEMS THAT WAY"

when such ‘degeneration’ smacks of an ad hoc argument...

OH AGAIN, NO SURPRISE "IF IT SEEMS THAT WAY TO ME ITS NOT TRUE" DUDE, I CAN SAY THE SAME THING TO YOU, STOP USING GIRLY MAN COW ARGUMENTS

then we may doubt that ‘degeneration from perfection’ is what we’re looking at.

HUH? READ WHAT I JUST SAID

Pray tell me what sort of degeneration can re-route a nerve,

DUDE, YOUR FORGETTING ABOUT FAILSAFES. OK MASTER ASSUMER GENETIC CODE MASTER MAN? AND ONCE AGAIN PRAY BLAH, EXPLAIN TO ME HOW MUTATIONS WHICH ARE ABOUT 100% ALWAYS BAD MAGICALLY ALLOWED US TO EVOLVED, NOT JUST NERVES BUT EVERYTHING TOGETHER, THANKS. OH YEAH EXPLAIN HOW A MUTATION CAN DO THAT WITHOUT THE ADDITION OF INFORMATION TO OUR DNA (LOOK UP THAT MYSTERIOUS WORD AGAIN).

and still have it work really well? If the closed-off nostrils of the Sulidae are a result of degeneration, how come not having openings at the end of a diving bird’s beak is such an obviously good idea?

WHAT? SEE WHAT I SAID ABOVE YOUR ARGUING BASED ON WHAT IS PLEASING TO YOU NOT INTENDED BY GOD FOR WHATEVER POSSIBLE AND OBVIOUS REASONS IVE ALREADY STATED.

THE BIBLE SAYS HE CREATES EVIL, THAT IS HORRIBLE EVENTS AND THE LIKE, THAT INCLUDES ON THE GENETIC LEVEL. THE BIBLE NEVER SAYS GOD CREATED THINGS SO THAT THEY DEGENERATE INTO PERFECTLY EFFICIENT WHATEVERS. YOUR ARGUING USING NUTTY NONSENSE. YOUR ASRGUING BASED ON THINGS THE BIBLE DOESNT SAY, WHAT

Sorry old chap, but ‘degeneration’ doesn’t cut it.

SORRY PERSON, SAYING "IT DOESNT SEEM THAT WAY" DOESNT COUNT AS EVIDENCE.

talk about stupid



Okay, I will. ‘Stupid’ is attributing to God so much stupidity. If there were such a thing as a hands-on designer-god, he’d not make so many cock-ups. Let go of this medieval nonsense though, as most Christians have, and there is less of a problem.



If you’d like to discuss this further, do come along to the Internet Infidels Evolution / Creation board (as I suggested on my ‘Contact’ page). It is here: www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=66



TTFN, Oolon


1) YOUR ASRGUING BASED ON THINGS THE BIBLE DOESNT SAY, BEING THAT IS THE CASE YOUR GOING TO SCREW UP IN ALL YOUR ARGUMENTS

2) YOUR ARGUING BASED ON WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE CASE TO YOU, I MEAN I DONT EVEN NEED TO COMMENT ON WHY THAT IS IDIOCY DO I

3) YOUR ARGUING BASED ON WHAT TICKLES YOUR FANCY, FOR EXAMPLE THAT MUSCLE EAR THING, DUDE, THATS LIKE SAYING ART IS NO USEFUL AND ART SHOULDNT EXIST, PEOPLE CREATE AND ALLOW THING TO DEGENERATE ON PURPOSE, GO LOOK IN A POTTERY BARN CATALOG OR GO TO WALMART AND LOOK THE DELIBERATELY WORN AND TORN JEANS.

I dont want u to hate god because i used caps, so try not to lose your mind.

Oh yeah I could have said more about the flowers but I didnt want to spend the rest of my life on every little detail you brought up, I brought enough so that you should realize your foundation is made of jelly. But if you wanna be like hey everyone he couldnt beat me on the flower argument, uh have fun,

By the way Id appreciate it if you let me borrow your xp cd if you have one, i cant afford a new cd and cant download it anytime soon. You can have fun with one of my linux os cds, i have the deluxe , you can read about it at xandros.net, save yourself $129

********************************

I'll let you guys have at this for a bit (as I have to work sometime ).

As Jimmy Young used to say, oft you jolly well go...

Cheers, Oolon

DinoStoned

The goggles! They do nothing!
Those caps are blinding me...

Here are some of my observations. Feel free to correct them.

Something he would do well to practise himself- explore all other alternatives instead of sticking his head into his holy book.

Genetics has nothing to do with software bugs, or so I think. Maybe Microsoft would beg to differ?

:banghead:

For him, the existence of God is a *fact*, and he cannot comprehend any other forms of belief different from his. That's what I thought from his "Then why did God do this? Then why did God do that?" rants.

Well... I certainly agree that the double meanings you can drag out of this one trumps anything I have ever seen.

Jet Black

heh, this is really christian... how does it go again "thou shall not steal" or something?

I found his use of coherent argument and caps lock very convincing. the swearing was a nice touch too, I don't see creationists doing that too much.

Sven

LOL These I liked best:

SEF

Yes those are all very fine examples of irony, ignorance and idiocy (which he would very much like to project onto Oolon instead).

However, I nominate this one for inability to observe and count tetrapod limbs (and for completely missing the point - viz evolution):
and this for its remarkably original "god is a fashion victim" proposal:

DinoStoned

Blast, I meant Caps-loving fundy...
Now I've a image of this particular fundy wearing a baseball cap, sitting in the stadium, and cheering on his team yelling "GOD LOVES YOU SO YOU'D BETTER SCORE ONE FOR HIM!"