Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aChristian · 03-04-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertsura

I don't know about you but committing mass murder doesn't make you good, loving, and righteous. But that's just me.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Julian · 03-04-2006, 06:29 PM

I can't believe I am taking the time to do this, but here goes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

Having established that the world exists, you can see from the design and beauty in the world that it must have a designer.

Wrong. No need to assume a designer. Science can explain most things without an appeal to a designer.

Quote:

You can believe it all popped into existence formed by random chance, but science argues against it.

No one claims that things 'popped into existence,' it is a strawman argument.

Quote:

We have never seen pick up sticks dropped and fall together into a perfect log cabin.

No one claims this, another strawman. Last I checked log cabins were not alive and didn't procreate.

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You can believe things randomly assembled themselves, but there is no evidence for it. So the odds again say there is a designer, a god.

Wrong. No one claims random assembly. What are you talking about? Another strawman.

Quote:

Now there are a lot of ideas about God, but one historically verifiable fact stands out in history. The resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Wrong again. It is not verifiable. We have no contemporary accounts.

Quote:

Jesus said he would prove his divinity by rising from the dead and he did. You can deny it, but it is like denying George Washington was the first president of the US. There is more historical eyewitness accounts to establish Washington's presidency because it is more recent with more witnesses, however there is enough reliable eyewitness testimony to the miracles, death, resurrection, and ascension to heaven of Jesus Christ that you cannot honestly deny it.

We have not one single eyewitness that had anything to do with Jesus. No one wrote anything down when he was alive.

Quote:

There are a lot of other evidences for the truth of Christianity, but the resurrection is enough to establish it.

It would have been if there was any evidence or witnesses. But there weren't...

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After that is established, Jesus has more credibility when talking about God than any other person. He said he was God, affirmed the OT and passed his teachings to his disciples who demonstrated miraculous powers in his name and wrote the NT with God's help.

Wrong again. We have no writings by Jesus or his disciples.

Quote:

Once it is established that Christianity is true, the OT and NT tell us that it is the only true religion (Jesus said he was the way the truth and the life and that no one could come to the Father except through him) and thus all other religions are false.

Circular reasoning. Using the bible to prove the bible. Tsk, tsk, tsk...

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That is it in short. You can find many resources to establish each of these points if you want to.

Erm, you know, we do know a thing or two about the bible and the history around it. You, however, seem to be woefully ill-informed.

Julian

aChristian · 03-04-2006, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

I can't believe I am taking the time to do this, but here goes...
Wrong. No need to assume a designer. Science can explain most things without an appeal to a designer.
No one claims that things 'popped into existence,' it is a strawman argument.
No one claims this, another strawman. Last I checked log cabins were not alive and didn't procreate.
Wrong. No one claims random assembly. What are you talking about? Another strawman.
Wrong again. It is not verifiable. We have no contemporary accounts.
We have not one single eyewitness that had anything to do with Jesus. No one wrote anything down when he was alive.
It would have been if there was any evidence or witnesses. But there weren't...
Wrong again. We have no writings by Jesus or his disciples.
Circular reasoning. Using the bible to prove the bible. Tsk, tsk, tsk...
Erm, you know, we do know a thing or two about the bible and the history around it. You, however, seem to be woefully ill-informed.

Julian

I would have to disagree with each of your points. In my opinion, you are just ignoring the clear and overwhelming evidence. As I told Bertsura, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Julian · 03-04-2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

I would have to disagree with each of your points. In my opinion, you are just ignoring the clear and overwhelming evidence. As I told Bertsura, we will just have to agree to disagree.

But you don't get to disagree. My post recites facts. Do you disagree with gravity? Try stepping of a 10 story building and see how far that disagreement will get you. You are simply displaying a complete ignorance of science and that facts of the world. You can disagree with the fact that grass is green and the sky is blue but all you show is abject ignorance. Read, learn and then make your points rather than the current demonstration of a profound lack of knowledge.

Julian

Diogenes the Cynic · 03-04-2006, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

Maybe, because I don't know that much about it, but I still tend to doubt that you know more, judging by your comments.

Which comments? Be specific. Don't accuse people of ignorance (or suspected ignorance) without making an effort to show what they're misinformed about. Just because someone contradicts your previously held beliefs doesn't mean they're the ones who are uninformed.

Quote:

As I describe above, the resurrection is verifiable

How so? Please be advised that Gospel accounts do not contain eyewitness testimony and are not reliable as "evidence" that a corpse came back to life under any standard of empirical methodology.

Spanky · 03-04-2006, 07:30 PM

I remember oh so well when I was like this!

Too well!

I thank the Invisible Pink Unicorn every day that I do not believe in the lesser gods anymore.

Doug Shaver · 03-05-2006, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

the weight of evidence is that God inspired the Bible.

You may so imagine.

I used to believe the same thing, until I decided to weigh the evidence myself instead of trusting what my pastor told me about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

You can choose to believe differently

No, I cannot.

Doug Shaver · 03-05-2006, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertsura

I don't know about you but committing mass murder doesn't make you good, loving, and righteous. But that's just me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

We will just have to agree to disagree.

I don't think Landover Baptist would have dared to make that one up.

Amaleq13 · 03-05-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

Having established that the world exists, you can see from the design and beauty in the world that it must have a designer.

That conclusion requires that one ignores the enormous number of dead-ends, outright failures, inefficient mechanisms, and unnecessarily convoluted processes that are involved and clearly contrary to any notion of intelligent design but entirely consistent with a "blind" process.

That said, this is clearly a subject more appropriate for E/C where you will find a more complete description of the full range of evidence.

Wads4 · 03-05-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

You underestimate the wisdom of God's lawyers. The fine print* in the contract specifies "another" as "a world-wide flood leaving only 8 survivors". Thus, God is free to create or allow smaller floods whenever He doth please.

*Best viewed with patented "faith-colored glasses".

Ah!

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03-04-2006, 07:30 PM	#206
Spanky Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: US Posts: 1,216	I remember oh so well when I was like this! Too well! I thank the Invisible Pink Unicorn every day that I do not believe in the lesser gods anymore.

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