Originally Posted by jon-eli

The bible isn't 2000 years old.

And your interpretive framework shares a lot in common with Marcionism. Why reinvent the wheel?

Originally Posted by ConsequentAtheist

There's no there in your therefore.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

It also borders on paganism and polytheism, and in contradiction of Monotheism. It infers someone else can 'create', or that another force is at work in a tug o war with the Creator. WONG WAY - GO BACK! The hebrew bible does not condone or mention devils, satan or anti-forces whatsoever, and nothing can occur which is not sanctioned by the creator. This includes accidents and mishaps such as plane crashes, tsunamis, wars, mass murders, holocausts, children born blind or deformed, and old ladies killed while crossing the road - these are all factored into creation.

The manifest fact is, this earthly realm is not made only of positive factors, but operates on a positive/negative duality equation. Otherwise there would be no merit in commandments or moral/ethical premises.

'MAN AND WOMAN CREATED HE THEM'

That verse applies to all things in the universe, down to the smallest particles. Technically, there is no 'ONE' in the universe - namely because an absolute ONE cannot exist without an interacting entity, and it cannot perform any actions by and of itself - that is ex nehilo - a Godlike quality. All emerged out of a duality, aka positive/negative; good/evil; hot/cold; plus/minus; etc.

That we do not know the purpose of creation as yet - while being assured there is one - is the cruelest cut of all. We are in an evil as well as a glorious realm, constituting the lowest arena - which must have fallen from the highest abode. The angelic beings would be astonished at our plight, seeing it as an awe and wonder - knowing clearly that they could not survive here. But that is also why an angelic being is incapable of anything of any merit whatsoever!

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

It takes two to tango.

Think about it. You inhabit a finite universe - which means everything in it never existed at one time. So how can a ONE sustain itself - when there is nothing else. How can you have a big bang when there is nothing else to bang into. How can the universe expand - when there is yet nowhere to expand to. How can you have a male by himself - then another equivaent female edition suddenly appear - and vallah! - both fit each other exactly like they were taylor made to order. Pretentious drivel - or a legitimate premise?

Originally Posted by Julio

Marcion had NOT fixed up the holy book like I do with my thesis! Marcion scrapped the entire OT, while holding on to Luke and a few Pauline epistles.

Originally Posted by jon-eli

Sounds to me like Marcion just fixed it differently. He was forced to scrap a lot of things he probably liked, because they didn't fit his theory. He made an effort to remain philosophically coherent, and it's not clear to me that he made a bad tradeoff. It's certainly less arbitrary than "keep the pretty, shiny stuff; drop the rest."

Originally Posted by Julio

The Bible is very much an arbitrary book, condemning all that disagree with it!

Originally Posted by Julio

[...] we have the inalienable right to react against the offensive part thereof! Don’t you think so?

Originally Posted by jon-eli

It's arbitrary to an extent. In the sense that it's been heavily redacted by many, many different people... it's arbitrary. But I think each individual author had a fairly coherent outlook that can't be termed "more arbitrary" than anything else in life. Arbitrariness is kind of unavoidable; in that regard, I don't think the individual authors of the bible failed any more than I'm failing right now, or that you failed a few minutes ago.

More to the point, condemning all who disagree with you, that's not arbitrary so long as your beliefs are not arbitrary.

"Right" is a loaded term; I wouldn't say we have a "right" to do anything much at all. If you want to react against those things you find offensive in the bible, I certainly won't hold that against you... as long as you can demonstrate that your reaction is less arbitrary than the arbitrariness against which you purport to be reacting.

Marcion demonstrated that much to me.

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

If YHWH ever did deem to take hand in human affairs, likely the first thing He would do would be to erase The entire Bible, with all of the lies that men have written about Him, and disavow all of the words that the preachers and the politicians have ever placed into His mouth.