Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Autonemesis · 10-13-2003, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Yes, because Marilyn Manson is such a symbol of perfection, and a great role model... MM looks and acts like he just came out of Hell.

Hell is a Goth dance gig?

Magus55 · 10-13-2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Autonemesis
Where is Jesus now? Does he still exist, in your view? If so, then what was sacrificed?

Jesus is in Heaven at the right hand of God and yes He does still exist. He sacrificed His mortal life, and suffered more than any other human on Earth, when He was the only innocent and perfect human in existence ( And in suffering the most, i mean both physical and emotional - being separated from God the father for the first time in eternity). Jesus now has the permanent scars of the crucifixion as an eternal sign of what He did for us. He will always have holes in His wrists and feet for the rest of eternity.

Autonemesis · 10-13-2003, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
God didn't create crucifixion. The Romans created that method.

Once again, Magus drags out the tired old free will saw, which says god is not responsible for his creation, except when it's convenient for christian apologists.

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And how else was Jesus gonna reconcile us with God?

He's God. Work it out.

(Hint: God could just say "it's reconciled" and it would be so - unless there's something he can't do, in which case he's not omnipotent)

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What can Jesus give up other than His mortal life?

His virginity? His aqua-scooter? His eclectic taste in philosophy? He's a god after all. He can make up something.

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He can't get rid of his divinity; thats a paradox.

Now when it's convenient for your argument, god is constrained by logic after all.

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So His mortal life was the only option.

That's the only thing an all-powerful all-knowing immortal being can come up with - only this one thing, no other thing could have been thought of? This is actually your sincere belief, is it?

Just checking.

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You don't have to believe He exists to hate Him. You hate Him by default, just by rejecting His existence. And for people who don't believe in God, you really go on and on about how cruel and unjust some hypothetical model of God is. If God doesn't exist, He isn't cruel and He isn't unjust; He is nothing.

You however, are something else.

Magus55, when we point out the cruelty and unjustness of your conception of god, we do so in the hope that you would become unable to continue to inconsistently regard such a character as benevolent, in defiance of your and our understanding of what the word means. Instead, you redefine benevolent to be "whatever my God does". This is the worst case of special pleading ever.

AspenMama · 10-13-2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
You don't have to believe He exists to hate Him. You hate Him by default, just by rejecting His existence.

Magus55,
The list of things people hate then must be quite long. Do you reject the existence of Hobbits? Dwarves, Elves, Big Foot, Unicorns? Zeus? Do you hate these things by default? These things all have some evidence for existence, i.e.; they are written about in books and legends scattered throughout many cultures and peoples. Thousands of people believe they exist. Thousands of people will relate instances of how they appeared to them although there is no definitive scientific proof. Using your logic, I can only assume you hate Zeus, which could be quite dangerous as he is very handy with bolts of thunder-- so I hear.

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
And for people who don't believe in God, you really go on and on about how cruel and unjust some hypothetical model of God is. If God doesn't exist, He isn't cruel and He isn't unjust; He is nothing.

I think the reason we go on about how cruel and unjust the xian god is, is because it is difficult to comprehend why you believe this particular god is a "loving god" and why even if you could provide me with real evidence for its existence, you would worship something to which all legends and current activity says is exceedingly cruel.

Autonemesis · 10-13-2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
He sacrificed His mortal life,

So what? He's a god and he knew that he would live after death for eternity.

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... and suffered more than any other human on Earth,

More than the thief that hung next to him?
More than the Elephant Man? (suffered for his 27 year life)
More than Giordano Bruno? (burned at the stake)
More than the audience at the premiere of Heaven's Gate?

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when He was the only innocent and perfect human in existence ( And in suffering the most, i mean both physical and emotional - being separated from God the father for the first time in eternity).

Big deal. I do it all the time, but no one gives me any brownie points. Jesus is such a wimp, he can't stand being away from Godshine - excuse me - Dadshine for the mere span of a few days? What if he gets near kryptonite?

And just who is Jesus separated from, himself? Isn't he your God in the flesh?

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Jesus now has the permanent scars of the crucifixion as an eternal sign of what He did for us. He will always have holes in His wrists and feet for the rest of eternity.

So what? He can heal those holes any time he wants.

Autonemesis · 10-13-2003, 07:11 PM

Frankly, I think the image of Jesus on the cross is a laughable totem, for all the reasons I have stated above. It's too stupid to be horrible, or obscene.

Derec · 10-13-2003, 07:33 PM

A half-naked man nailed to a cross? Sounds like a homoerotic S&M fantasy.

UMoC, putting on the asbestos suit

Weltall · 10-13-2003, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
He will always have holes in His wrists and feet for the rest of eternity.

You're forgetting the hole in his head, in symbolic recognition of his love for humanity by which he removed the critical thinking aparrati of his followers.

Magus55 · 10-13-2003, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Weltall
You're forgetting the hole in his head, in symbolic recognition of his love for humanity by which he removed the critical thinking aparrati of his followers.

Amusing... but not really.

winstonjen · 10-14-2003, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Jesus is in Heaven at the right hand of God and yes He does still exist. He sacrificed His mortal life, and suffered more than any other human on Earth, when He was the only innocent and perfect human in existence ( And in suffering the most, i mean both physical and emotional - being separated from God the father for the first time in eternity). Jesus now has the permanent scars of the crucifixion as an eternal sign of what He did for us. He will always have holes in His wrists and feet for the rest of eternity.

So what? The pain is gone, he will never suffer again.

And don't forget the holes in the pants of his priests, and the even LARGER holes in the butts of the children they molested.

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10-13-2003, 07:11 PM	#26
Autonemesis Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: I've left FRDB for good, due to new WI&P policy Posts: 12,048	Frankly, I think the image of Jesus on the cross is a laughable totem, for all the reasons I have stated above. It's too stupid to be horrible, or obscene.

10-13-2003, 07:33 PM	#27
Derec Contributor Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 15,686	A half-naked man nailed to a cross? Sounds like a homoerotic S&M fantasy. UMoC, putting on the asbestos suit

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