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Old 06-20-2012, 05:07 PM   #231
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I did not reply to this, because I assumed it was satire and sarcasm aimed at Sotto Voce, but no one got snookered by it and replied innocently to it, so I have to ask whether you have some astronomical information about the dates of Jesus that make it impossible during the years stated by Luke, etc? Is it some esoteric knowledge that only your sect knows?
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The gospels have Jesus' entombment at the end of the fourth day of the week, and ending presumably at the end of the seventh day, or perhaps a little later. That's day five, day six and day seven entombed.
And we know that because of the revelation given to Herbert W. Armstrong last century. So which offshoot of the Worldwide Church of God are you?
We should know it because we know the Scriptures, and know how to perform simple math.

There is enough information supplied within the Bible to determine right to the hour, -of the week, of the month, and of the year- and which year it was within the Sabbatical Cycle, when each of these NT events would have had to have happened, On schedule.

Most people will never know, because they are dumb sheep who are lazy 'Amen!' sayers, that are too damned stupid and lazy to sit down, study, and actually think and work it out for themselves, but ignorantly depend upon their church's paid liars for their misinformation.

Sheshbazzar The Hebrew
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You are being welcomed to sit down, study, and actually apply some original thought, and work out and find the correct answers yourself.
Esoteric knowledge? Certainly there are many matters of The Scriptures of which you have very little appreciation, and have no grasp of at all. That you remain in your ignorance and darkend understanding is not the fault of others.

If I were to reveal onto such as you the number of atzebaoth to the yad, and in each of the ammah of the three middah, and in each of the lengths of the three qan'eem ha' middah, doing so would avail you nothing.
Such esoteric knowledge is not the possession of any sect, but of sincere individuals whom privately apply themselves to gaining of such knowledge.

So, would you really care to personally delve into matters of understanding and of comprehending the goings forth of the ancient STANDARDS of measures of time and of space?

I will not tell you any answers (as those others, whose ways you have so long ignorantly followed after have done.)
But I will only ask of you, How do you -personally- locate the first second, the first minute of the first hour of the first day of the first month of your accounting of the year, and the cycles of the years?

How do you locate the beginning of the month of Abib? And how many days are there in seven, or in forty-nine of your years?

Just blunder after some old 'Jewish' or 'Christian' Traditions of men?

Either you will set -yourself- to the task of doing your own homework, and arriving at supportable answers, or continue to blunder on in your ignorance until you finally lay down in your darkness.


Sheshbazzar The Hebrew.

hint; shesh batzar, the Hebrew with the measuring reed, the builders line, and the plummet (weight) in his hand.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:44 PM   #232
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Adam, it isn't as easy as calculating the astronomy. The Jewish calender is partly based on subjective observation. It relies on a visual confirmation of the new moon. The visibility of a new moon is subject to meteorological variables and human error which make it impossible to calculate with precision. We can calculate the astronomy, but the calender doesn't always follow the astronomy.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:49 PM   #233
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Aren't you saying "Adam" where you should be saying "Shesh"? I'm not the one claiming I know the exact day and year of the Crucifixion. (Does anyone believe Shesh really knows?)
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:23 PM   #234
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The Jewish calender is partly based on subjective observation.
Which perhaps matters to anyone that follows a 'Jewish' calendar.
I don't.
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I'm not the one claiming I know the exact day and year of the Crucifixion. (Does anyone believe Shesh really knows?)
What 'Shesh' may, or may not know is not the problem. What Adam admittedly doesn't know is Adam's problem.

In the simple mathematical computation which was under consideration, as I stated, The Scriptures, that is The TaNaKa, along that information supplied in the Gospels is sufficient to determine right to the hour, and in some instances almost to the minute of the year, of the month, of the week, and of the day of the week, when certain NT events would have had to have taken place. ON SCHEDULE.
Either one has done the math and knows the sums, or one has not. It doesn't matter what sect they claim to be a part of.

Moreover, anyone that professes to be a 'believer', and claims to believe that The Gospels relate the details of an actual Crucification, should have no objections to accepting the premise that the course of these events followed and conformed to a pre-determined pattern which is revealed in (a knowledge of) The Law and The Prophets; (Amos 3:7)
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:54 PM   #235
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In the interest of being surer we are making sense one to another, what meanings do we share in our conversations here regarding the historical Jesus and when talking of historicists? What does "historical" mean in the context of Jesus and what exactly is a Jesus historicist? My guess is that the latter may be defined in terms of the former. If we all can agree on that fact, what exactly does "historical" mean when it qualifies Jesus? If not, can we clarify "historicist" as well?

Come out, wherever you are. I haven't got an axe. I just want to hammer out some basic terminology. So don't be coy. Give your opinion. It mightn't be what another thinks, but what will be the upshot? Can we come to a clear consensus?
"Historical" Jesus = a hypothetical human being, called Jesus, who can be found reasonably reliably attested in texts and/or artefacts from roughly the right time period, and who might plausibly be construed as the person around whom the myth of Jesus Christ formed in some way.

"Historicist" = someone who's hypothesis regarding the origins of Christianity is that the Christian religion took its departure, in some way, from such a human being.
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