Mageth

Originally posted by PCenfuego
First of all, I would like to make the point that Paul started all of his letters with "...servant of Christ Jesus...apostle of Christ Jesus..etc." He gave glory to Christ in every one of his letters. He also included the gospel message in all of his letters.

His interpretation of the Gospel Message. The Gospels apparently weren't even written when he wrote the epistles.

The reason his writings are so different from other books is that there was a need for it. The epistles are meant to show how to live by examples.

As if the Sermon on the Mount wasn't sufficient...

This was soon after Jesus' death so these were instructions for the new church. There had been no sort of "church" as they knew it before the death of Christ, so God chose Paul to give these instructions.

Exactly - Jesus didn't invent the concept of churches or the religion that goes along with them; Paul did.

It seems just like chivalry to me.

For the most part, another bit of antiquated misogyny we'd be better off without (if you're speaking of the medieval concept of Chivalry)

PCenfuego

Do you have proof that Paul's writings where the earliest to mention Jesus?

Mageth

That's generally accepted in Biblical scholarship.

Here's one source:

You can research the dating of the various books further if you wish.

PCenfuego

Why would you undergo a life of persecution just to form a big fraud. That isn't logical to me.

Mageth

Ask Joseph Smith, Bringham Young and various other early Mormons.

Persecution, BTW, is a "tool" often used by cults (such as the early church) to strengthen the resolve of their adherents. They view such persecution as a good thing, as a sign that they're on the right path.

PCenfuego

But they were not persecuted nearly to that extent

Mageth

To what extent? The reports of early Christian "persecution" appear to have been greatly exaggerated. The persecution of the early Mormons is well-documented, if you'd care to research it before you make any more assertions about it.

MortalWombat

This is even attested to by the church father Origen, who wrote in the mid 3rd century in Contra Celsum:
from How Did the Apostles Die?

Javaman

For starling:
I've not finished it yet but, so far, Paul: The Mind of the Apostle by A. N. Wilson is informative. I also bought his Jesus : A Life for the second time. I lent it out before I finished it the first time. Anyone else read it?

Please edit linky for credit... I don't know how.

{edited by Toto for line to II - I've added instructions on this to the sticky at the top of the BC&H page.}

Herakles

The answer to this question probably does not lie in the NT, as most of it, was written after and heavily under the influence of Paul. Current estimates for the gospels date them around 90-100 AD. And yes, I have read the Bible cover to cover (including Leviticus uugh).

In that case, Islam must be the one true religion (tm) because of the terrorists who "sacraficed" their lives.

Simple. They didn't know it was a fraud.


Do they have to be? My guess is that lots of legends were circulating about Jesus in the 50 years or so between his death and the first writings in the Bible about him and Paul just compiled what he thought Jesus must have been like.

In case your interested I recently read a book by Hyam Maccoby (spelling?) entitled Paul and the Myth of Christianity. It was pretty good.