Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Tao of Pooh · 12-23-2006, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenroad

I believe in light of the evidence this theory is absurd.

First of all the theorists who came up with this theory are concluding that Jesus didn't die because if you allow that he died you either have to say that he was just a man and his bones are still in the ground somewhere today or you can say that he was more than a man and a rose from the dead...

Way to miss an important point in the OP, the minnow was asking about Jesus' "missing years".
But thanks anyway :wave:

I'm not over-weight, I'm under-height.

Tao of Pooh · 12-23-2006, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Evil One

Jesus certainly got around a lot. India, Cornwall.... I presume there are other places that make the same claim...

Yup. Here's a site about The Tomb of Jesus in Japan. I think there's also some stuff out there about Jesus being in China too.

I'm not over-weight, I'm under-height.

rlogan · 12-23-2006, 04:50 AM

Jesus was in the Americas too:

http://www.utlm.org/booklist/titles/...icas_xb182.htm

Any odds on the Philippines? I'm putting even money on Samoa.

Tao of Pooh · 12-23-2006, 04:55 AM

Man, that Jesus dude was just racking up the frequent-flyer miles!

I'm not over-weight, I'm under-height.

djrafikie · 12-23-2006, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the minnow

I've heard about this theory somewhere. Is there any historical evidence to claim Jesus, at some point during his "missing years" wandered to India to study esotericism in Kashmir or the Himalayas, as a small minority claim?
Was Jesus ever influenced by Eastern/Indian philosophy of any kind or had contact with it?

Or is this a completely unfounded claim?

Oh it's totally true, they had a great easyjet deal on.

jgibson000 · 12-23-2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the minnow

I've heard about this theory somewhere. Is there any historical evidence to claim Jesus, at some point during his "missing years" wandered to India...?

No. But Tarzan did. See: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056560/

Jeffrey Gibson

premjan · 12-23-2006, 08:24 AM

St. Thomas is also rumored to have gone to India (that one is more likely).

goldenroad · 12-23-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Jesus did not go to India. All of the "evidence" for Jesus in India (or Japan) is obviously legendary, and appears after Nestorian Christian missionaries were in the area.

All that said, the evidence for any Christian creed that can be traced to shortly after Jesus' death, or for Jesus' resurrection, or for Christian martyrs, is about the same - legendary and unconvincing.

The evidence for Christian writing in the first century is extremely reliable. They were certainly not liable to legendary decay. You have to remember that they were written within about sixty years, most of them earlier. So we can safely say that eyewitnesses were still alive and would have corrected the authors of these letters and epistles if they were false but they don't. In fact, first century Josephus admits many things such as the fact that Jesus performed miracles and a Greek historian testifies that in 33 A. D. at noon what he describes as an eclipse took place. This would fit perfectly with the account that everything when dark when Jesus was crucified.

As for the the martydom of the apostles and early Christians being legendary and unreliable i encourage you to research it. Lets take the apostle Peter, here are some accounts of his death.

Clement of Rome (c.A.D. 96)
"Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours and when he had at length suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him. " (The First Epistle of Clement,5,in ANF,I:6)

Irenaeus (c.A.D. 180)
"Peter...at last, having come to Rome, he was crucified head-downwards; for he had requested that he might suffer this way." Origen, Third Commentary on Genesis, (A.D. 232) fragment in Eusebius 3:1:1,in NPNF2,X:132

So we can conclude that the early Christian accounts are hardly legendary and unreliable.

spin · 12-23-2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenroad

The evidence for Christian writing in the first century is extremely reliable.

Claiming it is not proving it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenroad

They were certainly not liable to legendary decay.

"[L]egendary decay"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenroad

You have to remember that they were written within about sixty years, most of them earlier.

That's what you need to demonstrate, not simply claim. We have no christian manuscripts from the 1st century.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenroad

So we can safely say that eyewitnesses were still alive and would have corrected the authors of these letters and epistles if they were false but they don't.

You can't saffely say anything until you can get past bald claims.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenroad

In fact, first century Josephus admits many things such as the fact that Jesus performed miracles and a Greek historian testifies that in 33 A. D. at noon what he describes as an eclipse took place. This would fit perfectly with the account that everything when dark when Jesus was crucified.

What makes you think that Josephus wrote the particular passage (or the insert in the James passage)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenroad

As for the the martydom of the apostles and early Christians being legendary and unreliable i encourage you to research it. Lets take the apostle Peter, here are some accounts of his death.

Clement of Rome (c.A.D. 96)
"Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours and when he had at length suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him. " (The First Epistle of Clement,5,in ANF,I:6)

Clement of course is traditionally placed in Rome and traditionally placed at 96 CE. Can you get beyond this tradition into some facts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenroad

Irenaeus (c.A.D. 180)
"Peter...at last, having come to Rome, he was crucified head-downwards; for he had requested that he might suffer this way." Origen, Third Commentary on Genesis, (A.D. 232) fragment in Eusebius 3:1:1,in NPNF2,X:132

150 years after the supposed fact is as good as a thousand after.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenroad

So we can conclude that the early Christian accounts are hardly legendary and unreliable.

That so was a little too easy for stuff that we've been through in detail here before and before. I would advise you to consult the archives before putting up this sort of stuff in the future. It will help you in the relevance department.

spin

Thomas II · 12-23-2006, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

St. Thomas is also rumored to have gone to India (that one is more likely).

Yup...Good times...

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12-23-2006, 04:50 AM	#13
rlogan Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alaska Posts: 9,159	Jesus was in the Americas too: http://www.utlm.org/booklist/titles/...icas_xb182.htm Any odds on the Philippines? I'm putting even money on Samoa.

12-23-2006, 04:55 AM	#14
Tao of Pooh Beloved Deceased Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The 100 Acre Wood. Posts: 2,805	Man, that Jesus dude was just racking up the frequent-flyer miles! *I'm not over-weight, I'm under-height.*

12-23-2006, 08:24 AM	#17
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	St. Thomas is also rumored to have gone to India (that one is more likely).

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