Faith

I don't see why the two must exist independent of one another. Are you saying it's unreasonable to have faith in God?



I frequently examine my own beliefs, sometimes I even question them. Sometimes it's easy to have faith in a sovereign God who looks after us, other times it's not so easy. I see nothing wrong with struggling over the difficult questions, and there are many. I always come back to the belief that I will have the answers soon enough.



"Fair" in the sense that God's judgment will be objective and impartial, not in the sense that it will please all parties. Believers and non-believers alike will be judged by the same standards.

Mageth

I thought you elevated Jesus' teachings and denigrated Paul's teachings earlier in the thread...

French Prometheus

Jesus advocates beating your slaves. Yes, SLAVES (douloi) not servants. (And even if they were merely paid servants, that would still be schoking.)
As for Jesus being schizophrenic, I don't see how the same person can say Mat. 19:19 and the Parabole of the Minas where he advocates killing those who won't submit to his rule (Luke 19:27). The fig tree incident is another example of his umbalanced character.
Before flatly asserting that I misinterpret the Bible, please read this thread.

I've read the Gospel and the rest of the Bible and I sure don't want you to "share" it with me. Be so kind as to keep it to yourself and don't try to restrict my freedoms (as long as I don't harm others). That's all I ask. Beyond that, you can believe anything you like.

French Prometheus

Jesus says that the Law (basically the Pentateuch) is still binding, Paul says that it is not.

Mageth

Well, I didn't say the two must exist independent of one another. But they (reason and faith) don't appear to be very compatible to me.

Whoa. How can God's judgment, the same God who made the laws, created the universe, created us, set up the "plan of salvation", the "source of all things", determines what we'll be judged for, does the judging, etc. etc., be "objective and impartial"? To be objective, the judgment would have to be based on some set of governing principles outside God. To be "impartial", well, we'd obviously need a third party to do the judging. Is there another god available?

For someone who's expressed so much uncertainty about what may actually happen at judgment, you certainly seem sure about this.

I think the most that you can really say is that you have "faith" that God's judgment will be "objective and impartial", and that "believers and non-believers alike will be judged by the same standards."

Faith

I believe I said Paul didn't always speak for Jesus and pointed out that his focus was on salvation through the Resurrected Christ while Jesus' was on loving God and following His Word. I don't denigrate Paul's teachings at all. I think there is much to be learned from his words, but I do tend to focus more on the words attributed to Jesus.


I'll take that under advisement, thanks.

Mageth

I chose the wrong word - I should have said "discount", not "denigrate". And when you said things like the following, I reasonably inferred that you were discounting (at least some of) Paul's teachings:

"As to the I Corinthians verses, you probably know that Paul didn't always speak for Jesus."

"These messages were altered by early Christians, like Paul, who placed more emphasis on worshipping the Risen Christ than on living like Him or following His teachings."

French Prometheus

My previous post is a little ambiguous and so is your answer.

This applies to real-life. Of course, I'm on this board to debate...

Faith

Well, of course they don't. Otherwise you would probably still claim to have faith.


That's funny. Does anything exist "outside God"?




I am uncertain about the standards God will use to judge us. I am not uncertain He will judge us. That said, I stand corrected. I have faith that God's judgment will be objective and impartial, and that believers and non-believers alike will be judged by the same standards.

miata

I am confused as God did have many favorites. He blinded Paul to get his attention; I think if he revealed himself to me that way I would be a Christian. Also if he gave me physical power in my hair or the ability to turn a stick into a snake, water into wine and being able to cast out demons in people who had fits or seizures now called epilepsy. Also I would want to be God's only human son.