show_no_mercy

Paul did not write he was about to die in 1 Thessalonians. He says we the living (ημεις οι ζωντες).

spamandham

...unsurprisingly, even you make a joke of your beliefs. If you *really* believed what you are saying, you'd happily take my bet if for no reason than an act of faith.

You have nothing to lose from your perspective, and neither do I from your perspective. So why the reluctance? I also believe I have nothing to lose. The difference is, I really believe it and am willing to bet significantly on it.

sugarhitman

OK state where it says in that chapter where it says that the world would witness this event. That ch. deals with Christ's return to heaven....not the earth.

sugarhitman

Theres an account where a rich man in Hell was able to see into heaven...Yes, everyeye will see Jesus return...those on earth....and in Hell.

Roller

Jesus is saying that the priest will be able to see him while he (priest) is still alive. He will be able to see Jesus (or Son of man) as he descends from heaven (sky).

Ferryman to the Dead

Could not have said it better myself. This Jesus return stuff is a lot of hocus pocus with a little bit of fairy tale mixed in. They have been screaming Jesus return for centuries, still no god man. It was predicted in 1000 AD, then agian in 2000 (Y2K), then still agian in 1984 and we are all still here and no Jesus yet. Theres all kinds of dates floating around out there. Dec 21, 2012 though not a Biblical event, but the Fundies not to be out done have predicted our doom on May 21, 2011...I guess all this crap is still bringing in the cash for the pulpit pimps. Religon does nothing unless its involving money.........

Solo

You quote from 2 Thessalonians but most NT scholars do not consider this epistle a genuine Pauline letter. It seems to have been forged in Paul's name precisely because the continued delay in Christ's coming had to be explained. 2 Thess provides the revelation of the Wicked and the theological necessity of his destruction as reasons for the delay of parousia which Paul's 1 Thess promised - in his generation. 2 Th 2:15 refers to 'traditions..taught by word or our epistle', the latter being transparent reference to 1 Thess the concerns of which the second letter restates. Note that 2 Thess no longer affirms categorically that Paul's (putative) contemporaries will see the parousia. Instead the forger urges the believers to turn away from deceivers who say that the day will not come.


Best,
Jiri

Sheshbazzar

Just a few of the reasons for doubting s'hitmans 'prediction' that.......... 'We are that Generation'
http://www.abhota.info/

aa5874

Where in the WORLD did I say the WORLD would SEE Jesus in heaven with his Father BEFORE the return?

Please, state where in gJohn it is found that DEAD believers will SEE Jesus in heaven BEFORE the return.

gurugeorge

I'd be inclined to interpret such sayings mystically, and to suggest that they got garbled in later, over-literal interpretation. IOW, what they refer to is a kind of cross-cultural experience where one feels oneself to be, at a deep psychological level, one with the underlying substratum of the Universe, which wasn't born and won't die.

"Immortal" literally means "Deathless" (Greek Athanatos) - that's what the Greek gods were. And that's also what the goals of "apotheosis", "entheos" were (e.g. cf. Greek philosophers from Empedocles to Iamblichus).

For cross-cultural triangulation, note that there was a closely-related concept in Chinese thought (the goal of some forms of Daoism was "immortality").

There's also a discussion of this sort of thing in the "Paul" writings in relation to the concept of "Resurrection" (cognate concept), and in a later gnostic letter/treatise "On the Resurrection".

These texts are difficult to understand, but they do make some sense if you interpret them as pertaining (at first, at the origins of the religion) to mystical experiences which are based in our shared physiology, neurology and psychology, and are therefore cross-cultural.

And absent evidence for a human Jesus, it's worth looking at the hypothesis that Christianity started as a small mystical sect, who were having visions and mystical experiences based on a revalued concept of the Messiah - that he was not one to come but rather one who has been; not a military but rather a spiritual victor. Specifically, a victor over death in the manner spoken of above, so that you imitated the death and resurrection in yourself (imitating death by baptism - i.e. temporary drowning leading to panic and loss of the ordinary sense of self - and imitating resurrection by the subsequent mystical experience of "deathlessness", whereupon you would be said to be "anointed" - i.e., a Christ, "one with Christ", or "Christ in you").