Sheshbazzar

Don't forget Thomas getting the invitation to stuff his fist into the zombies sliced open abdominal cavity.
__ If you are going to believe resurrection horse-shit you may as well believe it all.


Umm ...we know that Christians never lie, or make up their 'witnessing' stories ....don't we?

Cesc

You're right, there are numerous resurrections of various kinds (my favorite is the zombie army of Ez 37!) and the healing resurrection miracles of Elijah and Elisha are interesting as literary patterns for Jesus' healing resurrection stories. But whereas the raising of Lazarus is a miracle and sign of God's power, Jesus' own resurrection has a whole different theological significance, it is apparantly significant for the salvation of the whole world for all eternity.


Now you're a little too quick, aren't you? There are no indications anywhere, in OT or apocrypha or secterian writings, of a belief that the messiah would be rising from the dead. If there is, that's what I'm missing.


As for Paul, maybe he's a later fabrication, but I don't think so. And though I'm ready to be convinced, that discussion is not for this thread.

Cesc

Just because some of them are made up, it doesn't mean that everything is automatically made up, let's be reasonable and scientific here.

For the record, of course I don't believe anyone have risen from the dead.

Sheshbazzar

Some things are not explicitly spelled out, and others get lost in interpretation or translation.

The OT concept is of a 'seed' (in this case the 'seed' of David') needing to be 'planted' (buried) in order to bring forth fruit, beginning with the 'Firstfruit' (1 Cor 15:20-23)
and from that a vine having branches bearing fruits (Jn 15:5, Rom 11:16) to be gathered at the great harvest 'Ingathering Festival' at the end of the season.

As I said, the concept is founded upon textual interpretation and interpretation of the meaning and the significance of the annual sabbatical Festivals, and is very old and fundamental to the idea being presented in 1 Cor 15 & Jn 15:5, Rom 11:16

That 'Paul' is not an authentic character in no way affects the fact that these authors are supplying us with what they understood these OT 'firstfruits' and 'harvest festival' observances to signify and 'point toward'..

Cesc

We dont know, but we can try to get closer to what's the most probable. Mass hallucination is a possibility. Then delusional is perhaps not the best term.

Because rising from the dead is a priori an impossibility.

Sheshbazzar

I live on a farm in Kentucky, in the middle of horse raising country.
It has been my observance that when you wash down horse-manure, the remainder is straw.
Being a reasonable skeptic, I'm not inclined to try to build a 'scientific' mansion out of straw recovered from horse pucky.
Another way of saying that I find these writings to be pure religious fiction. I do not build history on their content.

Cesc

I agree that this mechanism is at play somehow, that a Xtianity only without the resurrection bit would never have survived. But who specifically might have "changed the ending" and how?

Cesc

Hahaha, I think I understand what you're saying.

Sheshbazzar

Looking at Fundamentalist Christianity as it is today, selling what sold is also a distinct possibility.
People wanted a religious mythology that would give them confidence in their future, and a hope of eternal life, .... or at least a prayer of getting through another week. ....and the religious authors obliged.

Cesc

There is no doubt that there was an audience for this stuff, a fact that would help the resurrection-belief spread out once it was conceived.