queser

please stop making interpretations and expect everyone to think its very smart what you concluded.

you reckon, well imagine an army in a battle consisting people who has a certain common belief, this common belief is what caused the war,since the other side, enemy has another belief, so when you change your belief you then become part of the enemy, hence traitor.

eg.

10 people believe they can eat apples
10 others believe they cant

they argue till a point that they start fighting.

during the fight one of the 10 who believes they can eat apples changes his mind , he is then a traitor in this fight since by changing his mind he switches sides in the middle of the fight.

ayman

Who talks about freedom of expression! I talk about culture, do you agree that each society has its own culture or not, this is my question?
You came from a Muslim family but now…? I wish to know if it is possible.
Who talks about killing people, the subject if you still remember deals with preaching.
Yes, I pointed to that movie.
No, I live in Egypt and I remember the case of “walima leAshab Elbahr�?, but as I told you I do not know the man, however I said repeatedly do not judge Islam by actions of some Moslems.

ayman

What is your evidence?

ayman

Sorry this is not correct, Moslem minorities are (according to independent & neutral sources) very active and have a very positive role in their new countries.

Mughal

Dear queser,

the point I was making was that who is really dangerous, the hypocrite or a person who comes out and says, look I am no longer supporting you, you go it alone.

I raised this point to show that it is senseless to kill apostate because they could not pose any danger to islamic state or they would hide instead and be hypocrite, because hypocrites are allowed to live due to the benefit of the doubt despite theyu posing the real danger.

regards and all the best.

Gregg

Note that I qualified, "If they become atheists or agnostics." Then note that most of the people who post in these forums are atheists and agnostics. Then find threads where the ex-Christian atheists or agnostics explain their reasons for leaving Christianity. I'm more than a little confident that if you talk to ex-Muslims who have become atheists or agnostics, they will give you quite similar reasons for their choices.

Mughal

Dear friends,

The reasons why people become atheists are many. One of them is being rational.

As for mind and experience, it is true that we human cannot think of anything beyond our personal experiences. The reason is that once a human has biologically developed to a stage that its brain and the senses become operational, the brain is ready to start processing the information that it receives via the senses. If the brain receives no imformation it will have nothing to process.

As the bits of information stream into the brain it starts storing the information and tries to organise it so that it could make some sort of sense of it. All the information into human brain comes from looking at physical things, listening to physical sounds, smelling the oders of physical things, tasting physical things, touching physical things etc etc etc.

To begin with the brain has no capability to look at nonphysical things, listen to nonphysical things, taste nonphysical things, smell nonphysical things or to feel nonphysical things.

All this information that our brains gets is totally and utterly about physical things regardless we are actually able to observe them or not through our technology. So right from the start we experience only and only those things that are there and somehow we have a physical connection with them.

As we learn to use our brains, senses and our bodies to interact with things within the given environments, we become more and more experienced people. There comes a stage whereby we start thinking and making sense of things. This is where we become capable of imagining things. However, whatever we think of always bears resemblance to what we aleady have in our minds from whatever we have learned so far. It is not possible for a human to think of something that one has not experienced in some way.

For example, think of a fruit that has no resemblance of any kind in any way to anything that you have experienced. You will see that you cannot, try all you like. Because our brains have learned to look at things only in sense of physical objects that have shapes, sizes, colours or some other aspects that are most definitely related to their physical properties or charateristics. It is not possible for us to look at something that has no such properties.

Even when we dream, we cannot dream of anything that does not have relationship with our physical experience in all its aspects. It has to have a shape or size or colour etc ie some sort of physical aspects or properties that we already know or understand.

Now this being the case, how do we get the ideas of things that do not really exist as far as our experience is concerned eg gods, angels, demons and ghosts etc etc etc? If we look at these concepts by breaking them down for analysis, we will find that they are definitely based on aspects of our life experiences in everyway. Our capability of imagining things has no limits other than what I have explained. For example, I can imagine an apple that is giant in size, very sweet in taste, very bright in colours or very pleasant in smell etc etc etc. Such an apple actually does not exist but I have no problem in imagining it because I am still thinking of something that has a shape, a size, a colour, a taste, a smell etc etc etc. Likewise, an imaginary being can be created in our minds that really does not exist but it has features that are related to our practcial experiences in every way we can imagine. An authorotative figure, a frightening figure, some kind of giant thing, some one who does something impossible etc etc.

In other words, it is impossible for us to believe in a god or for that matter anything that does not somehow fit-in with our physically experienced things or their aspects in everyway.

Since these are actual facts I have cited to explain things, now the question, why a god who is nonphysicsal and is impossible to know would create a creature to know it when actaully it cannot?


1) Learning to think for oneself is necessary to survive. Fairness in judgement=normal mindset.

2) Thinking helps think straight and become open minded due to increase in knowledge, which therefore is a blessing because it leads to progress and prosperity thereby to happiness.

Regards and all the best.

sphinx wui

Proud atheist

Every religious group use the same excuse and This is why i asked you before which Islam you subscribe to, Shia! Or Suna, Sofi or Ikhwan or Tableigh wa dawa?
who is your contemporary role model as a Muslim?

don't tell me i just follow the Quran and Hadith, i can prove to you the same thing and its opposite from the Quran or as Ali ibn Abi Taleb said “Alquran Hamal Aogoh�?


Yes i agree that every society has its own culture but you are mixing cards here Ayman, as an Egyptian, tell me exactly what is wrong culturally about me to criticize Islam?
BTW, how you think of this behavior from your cultural point of view.
http://www.elaph.com/Politics/2004/10/14390.htm

Things usually start with preaching and end with blood shed

who killed Sadat was not Khaled Alislamboli but the preachings of Mohamed Abdelsalam Farag

Dragon

So, if we don't convert to Islam or admit that it is correct, we do not understand it? The same could be said of Christianity, or Buddhism.

Oh yes, and making over-generalized statements aren't making you look smart. Such as: "western women are whores".

sphinx wui

if you can call somebody natural born atheist, it will be me.

I didn't make a deconversion decision cause actually i have never been a religious person in my life and if you expect me to tell you a melodramic deconversion story, sorry to disappoint you, i don't have one.

If you want to ask more specific questions i will be more than happy to answer them and if you read Arabic and want to read some stories here is the link to an atheist Arabic site.
http://ladeeni.net/pn/

and this is their forum
http://ladeeni.net/forum/