Freethought & Rationalism Archive

No Robots · 08-19-2009, 09:52 AM

And Christ continues to elicit the devotion of billions on the basis of nothing more than what he said.

bacht · 08-19-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

And Christ continues to elicit the devotion of billions on the basis of nothing more than what he said.

True. The pen may be mightier than the sword after all.

There are also billions who follow the Koran. There used to be millions who followed Confucius.

You could argue that Christ simply told people what they wanted to hear: believe in me and you won't die. Nobody wants to die, and many believe in reincarnation, resurrection etc. Doesn't mean it's true.

bacht · 08-19-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Alexander the Great was greatly mythologized. See Alexander the Great:
A Life in Legend / Richard Stoneman. Review (pdf).

Zing!

Damn, where's that over-the-head smilie when you need it? :constern02:

spin

you can only try...

Prov 26.4-5

Doug Shaver · 08-20-2009, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

And Christ continues to elicit the devotion of billions on the basis of nothing more than what he said.

No. The devotion is based on what people said about him. Of what he himself said, we have nothing.

spin · 08-20-2009, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Prov 26.4-5

Naughty. Vewy naughty.

spin

Yellum Notnef · 08-20-2009, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

And Christ continues to elicit the devotion of billions on the basis of nothing more than what he said.

True. The pen may be mightier than the sword after all.

There are also billions who follow the Koran. There used to be millions who followed Confucius.

You could argue that Christ simply told people what they wanted to hear: believe in me and you won't die. Nobody wants to die, and many believe in reincarnation, resurrection etc. Doesn't mean it's true.

Bingo! Nobody wants to die. It's got nothing to do with genius unless that genius was being used to fleece people.

spin · 08-20-2009, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

And Christ continues to elicit the devotion of billions on the basis of nothing more than what he said.

Hell, that's one great source of voting power, if I could only figure out a way to manipulate it. What? Act like George Bush? -- There are just some things that even I wouldn't stoop to. :melodramatic: What about a performance like Jim Bakker, Ted Haggard or Tony Alamo?
:vomit:

spin

lpetrich · 08-20-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpetrich

I'm reminded of the argument that the Jesus Christ of the Gospels was too noble a character to have been invented. ...

Yeah, that's pretty much Constantin Brunner's position as well. I mean, how is that some anonymous group managed to create the most compelling person in history out of thin air? ...

I don't find him especially compelling, but in any case, one could make that argument about other legendary figures and histories.

Does anyone think that the Iliad is too compelling to have been made up by generations of storytellers? And that it is therefore 100% documentary history? Yes, divine interventions and all.

As to Will Durant's argument, I'll repeat it here:

Quote:

The Christian evidence for Christ begins with the letters ascribed to Saint Paul. Some of these are of uncertain authorship; several, antedating A.D. 64, are almost universally accounted as substantially genuine. No one has questioned the existence of Paul, or his repeated meetings with Peter, James, and John; and Paul enviously admits that these men had known Christ in his flesh. The accepted epistles frequently refer to the Last Supper and the Crucifixion....

The contradictions are of minutiae, not substance; in essentials the synoptic gospels agree remarkably well, and form a consistent portrait of Christ. In the enthusiasm of its discoveries the Higher Criticism has applied to the New Testament tests of authenticity so severe that by them a hundred ancient worthies -- for example, Hammurabi, David, Socrates -- would fade into legend. Despite the prejudices and theological preconceptions of the evangelists, they record many incidents that mere inventors would have concealed -- the competition of the apostles for high places in the Kingdom, their flight after Jesus' arrest, Peter's denial, the failure of Christ to work miracles in Galilee, the references of some auditors to his possible insanity, his early uncertainty as to his mission, his confessions of ignorance as to the future, his moments of bitterness, his despairing cry on the cross; no one reading these scenes can doubt the reality of the figure behind them. That a few simple men should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so lofty an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood, would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospel. After two centuries of Higher Criticism the outlines of the life, character, and teaching of Christ, remain reasonably clear, and constitute the most fascinating feature of the history of Western man.

The Story of Civilization, Volume 3: Caesar and Christ (p. 555)

I wouldn't be surprised if Constantin Brunner's works have lots of similar panegyrics in them.

No Robots · 08-20-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpetrich

Does anyone think that the Iliad is too compelling to have been made up by generations of storytellers? And that it is therefore 100% documentary history? Yes, divine interventions and all.

There is a new book by one of my Brunnerian friends that argues for the historicity of Homer and his authorship of the Iliad and the Odyssey. You can read my review of the book here.

Yellum Notnef · 08-20-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpetrich

Does anyone think that the Iliad is too compelling to have been made up by generations of storytellers? And that it is therefore 100% documentary history? Yes, divine interventions and all.

There is a new book by one of my Brunnerian friends that argues for the historicity of Homer and his authorship of the Iliad and the Odyssey. You can read my review of the book here.

So would you consider yourself Christian or Brunnerian? Has yet another Christian offshoot started?

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08-19-2009, 09:52 AM	#361
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	And Christ continues to elicit the devotion of billions on the basis of nothing more than what he said.

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