Cesc

Depends on what lunar month you're using. Often the 28-day month was used, making it 13 months pr. solar year. But the more correct 30-day lunar month makes it 12 pr. solar year (and then some). The real lunar month is in average 29,53 days.

judge

So do you think the 12 tribes of Israel are related to the 12 houses of the zodiac?
I know Josephus thought the vestments of the priest were related to the zodiac IIRC and that according to Josephus the zodiac was apparently featured on the temple floor .

Cesc

Yes I do. At least, I dont think its a coincidence. I think the common setup of the One and the 12 comes from the sun and the 12. The sun was also regarded as the great lawgiver, btw. Its all God's design, as in heaven, so on earth. The 12 houses, 3 in each of the 4 compass directions.
I didn't know Josephus wrote that, though. But I heard he wrote that the Temple was designed so that on vernal equinox the sun would rise and shine directly into the holiest of holies unto the Ark, like in Egypt. You know if thats true?

Anat

I speculate that the logic for 12 would be: number of lunar months per year is between 12 and 13, closer to 12 than to 13, combined with the easy divisibility of 12 (4 seasons of 3 months each) vs the non-divisibility of 13.

Other uses or symbolic meanings of 12, including zodiac houses, tribes of Israel, Olympian gods and whatnot were IMO derived independently by various cultures. People conversant in more than one culture may have tried to correlate different lists of 12 items, but IMO those were superimpositions, not evidence for shared origins. (For example there are Jewish interpretations for the aptness of Graeco-Babylonian zodiac signs for Hebrew months: Obviously the sign of Tishrei is the Libra because that is when God weighs people's actions in the past year to determine who will live and who will die in the coming year. The sign of Tevet is Aquarius because it is a rainy month. The sign of Adar is Pisces because fish are lucky and the Jews were lucky to survive the decree of Haman. The sign of Nisan is Aries for the Pasqual lamb. And so on. I seriously doubt the Babylonian or Greek astronomers had any of that in mind when they chose those signs.)

mg01

When you only count full moons most years only have 12. Every couple years a month will have 2 full moons (the second one is called a blue moon) and 13 for the year.

Divide 360 by 12 you get 30 which related to the zodiac is how many degrees of sky each takes up. The original Sumerian week was 15 days (with one as a day of rest) so two in a month on 30 days. 360 days in a year with a five day festival before the start of the new.

Cesc

In Egypt, the 5 extra days were the festivals of the 5 gods Isis, Osiris, Horus, Set and Nephtys. In Babylonia they added an extra month every 6 years (the "female year"), called Raven, an omen of bad luck (for the 13th month).

mg01, you wrote:
"3 is tied to the three days of the new moon which reappears as the new crescent after being consumed by the sun."
Did you mean the three days the moon is in the dark before new moon?

It seems to me that '3 days' throughout the Bible is quite often 3 days of hardship: being starved, blinded or alone for 3 days or similar. Do you think there's something to it, and that it might relate to the 3 days of the moon?

Clivedurdle

Strange comment. Would you document quantum mechanics from ancient literature?

I thought the process was to look at the evidence in front of you and construct theories.


What are your theories about what look like clear interest in numbers and giving them special meanings - six days shall ye labour for example?

Anthropology, the emergence of maths - Pythagoros et al (and I do and many mathematicians do) actually have feelings like an epiphany when something works mathematially. Roger have you read Archimedes Codex yet - it is in paperback and is very interesting about maths.

I also recommend Universal History of Numbers (or via: amazon.co.uk) Amazon.UK


This subject - the interplay between religion and number is fascinating and is a wonderful example of how religious ideas and maths and science have co-evolved. The snag is that once it allowed ideas like atomism and to work out stuff, the gods became less and less important as explanations.

The invention of zero was a critical point. Imaginary numbers a further point. Prime numbers and symetry are giving a lot of thought.

Therebe a huge amount of history here - France did not succeed at decimalising the calendar.

Clivedurdle

http://www.britanicca.com/EBchecked/...#ref=ref537640

mg01

Yes. It's a whole rebirth motif. Remember too the snake is associated with the moon and consider the caduceus which is a pair of intertwined snakes representing the pre/post crescent around the new moon.

Probably not necessarily directly intended. I would suppose that it was simply part of the vernacular. There is a story concerning David where he has to go hide from Saul for three days during a lunar festival that seems rather curious. Then of course you have Jonah.

ahdenai

if you're interested in the meaning of numbers in the old testament, then you should study kabbalah.