Duvduv

Mountainman, I still fail to understand how your scenario can account for all the variety and differences among so many NT texts that you would argue emerged from one centralized scriptorium over a twelve year period. No matter who the rulers might have been or which religion(s) were involved on all sides of the story.

How and why would Joshua of the Torah have become Jesus, but more than that, why is GMatt constructed the way it is, why is GMark different from GLuke and why is GJohn different from all of them? Why are there different theologies between the epistles and the gospels, and among the epistles?

There are so many things unaccounted for by your scenario, including the possibility that the various Jesus story lines, whether of the canon or outside of it, had roots outside of the imperial scriptorium.

As I have mentioned before, the "scriptorium" of the US constitution ands political ideas relied on bits and pieces derived from the writings of others. There was Polybius, Montesquieu, Locke, Rousseau, Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, etc. Here is just one link that talks about it:
http://www.sullivan-county.com/bush/constitution.htm

Steve Weiss

I would comment, but I prefer not to be banned.

Steve Weiss

It is possible to hold contardictory views consistent with both science and faith at the same time by compartmentalizing and without identifying and analyzing one's premises. This is a manifestation of irrationality either on the implicit or explicit scale.

mountainman

Only the canonical texts emerged from the scriptorium c.324/325 CE.

The non canonical texts emerged from the Alexandrian resistance, some of which moved far out of town to Nag Hammadi. The non canonical texts appeared (IMO) AFTER Nicaea c.325 CE, as a reaction to the canonical texts.

Do you understand these two claims are directed at the canonical and the non canonical corpus of christian literature?




At the appearance of these unlawful non canonical books, which mimicked the characters in the Constantine Bible, the Emperor Constantine ordered them prohibited, to be burnt, and for their preservers to be executed. Any resistance had to hide deep underground. The word "apocrypha" means "hidden". These books were seen as seditious unlawful publications. They were NOT under the control of either Constantine or Eusebius, both of whom fumed and became exasperated at their appearance.




Why does Bilbo Baggins write letters to Frodo and the Elves but not the dwarves? Why if the song of the Ents different that the song of the Elves? Why did Gandalf the Grey have to battle the Balrog in the pit of Moriah before he was resurrected to become Gandalf the White?


I will read this.

sotto voce

Repeating something does not make it true. (Except in the Stalinist sense. )

Steve Weiss

You see I can spell the word contradictory. I battle with dyslexia and haste which makes waste.

What you mean by repeating something not making it true is a truism, but its relevance in this case is not evident to me.

DCHindley

He means that if you repeat something often enough, it may become a "truism," but it may not necessarily be "true." Sotto is of the opinion that his understanding of the origins of Christian literature is "true" because of all the countless faithful who have believed in it, while the modern research which throws wrenches into his POV, is the repetition of falsifications by those of whom Jude says:

10 ... revile whatever they do not understand, and by those things that they know by instinct as irrational animals do, they are destroyed. ... 12 These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they boldly carouse together, looking after themselves; waterless clouds, carried along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars for whom the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved for ever. ... 16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own passions, loud-mouthed boasters, flattering people to gain advantage. ... 19 It is these who set up divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

How did SV's POV about early Christianity become so firmly entrenched within his ever smug mind? Because it was repeated generations upon generations, until it became a "truism."

DCH

Duvduv

I don't think your reply really addresses my questions about the vagaries and contradictions of the various NT texts.

mountainman

What sort of transparent consistencies would you expect to find in a 4th century canonized text of a "New and Strange Holy Writ", appended to a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, published to the Roman Empire by a supreme Germanic barbarian "Pontifex Maximus" whose sole purpose was to obtain alot of gold and then unify and de-Hellenize the empire which he already securely ruled and tightly controlled by his very efficient barbarian army?

Duvduv

Mountainman, that still doesn't explain the way the contrasts among the texts came into existence. You haven't explained how a centralized Scriptorium produced such contrasting texts instead of uniformity, which one would expect.