rob117

Richard Friedman's The Hidden Book in the Bible goes over this. There's also an interview with him here where he explains this.

spin

When I said, "Try and make a case, please", the verbs were imperative, the subject of an imperative is "you". I don't give a flying fig what Friedman says: he's not here to respond. If you want to make a case, please do, otherwise, I guess you'll just let it pass.


spin

sorompio

Well, I think I said something. The Bible is literary and philosophical shit for its own merits. Yes, you can rescue some little parts (Job, the Song Of Songs, perhaps something else) but it is its tremendous religious effect what makes people get interested in it, not literary or philosophical values. But, once again, if somebody makes such an observation, objection would be made about that this kind of remark is purely subjective. But the Bible was forced upon us and the preposterous lie of "its poetry" mentioned many times. Only for that, it deserves utmost contempt.

spin

I don't really know from what stance you are making your judgments. Do you know the literature of the period, so you can make an informed judgment? Do you know the literary merits of the various biblical works?

I don't really see why people have to shoot the book when it has been misappropriated by christians and twisted out of its original significance. The book is a cultural artefact which has a lot of interest to anyone who has done the background reading and is capable of separating the christian encrustations from it. Shoot the people who foist the book on the modern world as though it has some direct significance. It's not the book's fault.

The book has a vast range of interesting and thought provoking turns in it, starting from the very first chapter and its highly sophisticated creation (and yes I do know that it's not scientific). Then there are all the traces of other creations hidden in passages elsewhere in the text. The Joseph story offers quite a range of emotions for such an ancient work. I could point out the psalms as of literary merit as a lot of the prophets, but there are other aspects beside those literary, for we can see developments in religious thought and the reuse of older ideas in newer contexts. I'm fascinated by the development of the word of god which is personified as wisdom, who was there at the creation, through which the creation was carried out. We then find her walking the streets calling to those who will listen.

There is so much to be found in the texts for those who want to look. If you don't like people flogging it to you, it's not the book's fault. It didn't ask to get stuck in black fake leather and be drooled over by witless people who don't understand what they read when trying to foist the religion, book and all, down your gullet.

It's not the book. It's those who force it on you. Don't you remember at school getting Shakespeare shoved down your throat and how you reviled at it? It wasn't Shakespeare's fault. He wrote some good stuff. TV or not TV. Friends, Romans and countrymen, lend me your ears... what's in the bag... um, ears. Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou, Romeo? Coming deeeeaaaaarrrrr. I actually know my Bill, but it wasn't because I studied him at school. It was because I later chose to study him. Had teachers had their way, my interest in Shakespeare would have died when I left school. Shoot the teachers, not the book.

You won't know what merit lies in the book until you can look at it untinged with enmity towards christians.


spin

SkepticBoyLee

Who says that atheists always speak this way? You play up or down to your level of competition to give a sports analogy here. When talking to fundys, the Bible is shit. When talking to liberal types is less shitty and when spekaing in terms of the way you are speaking, it is many things. Some of them positive and some of them shitty.

seven8s

True. Then I found that I couldn’t know what merit laid in the book until I could look at opinion (mine) untinged, without enmity towards myself, with understanding at least the size of a grain of mustard seed. It sure is a book that can make one cringe, one way or another. I do believe that you have to reject the book to understand the book, otherwise you are left with enmity towards the self and or christians/jews. At some point I think it's true that you walk away leaving it all behind.

Peter Watts

When someone tells me, "I don't want there to be a God," what should I assume from that statement?
Am I missing something?

Toto

You seem to have missed the point that no one here has said "I don't want there to be a God."

Which is not to say that no one has ever said that, but it is not a common argument that atheists make.

And you should notice that this is BCH, and that comment is a bit off topic.

Peter Watts

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not quoting anyone on this board.

You're telling me you don't want to believe what I'm saying because it doesn't fit in with how you think atheists should be. Sorry, but people don't fit into neat little categories. Many of the atheists I know don't believe in God and don't want there to be the possibility of a God. They are quite angry.

If you would like me to email you my address and other contact information, you can come here and I'll introduce you.

Amaleq13

You are correct that there exist atheists who are motivated to that conclusion by emotion rather than reason but it would be incorrect to generalize that to all atheists. It would be just as incorrect for me to generalize the ignorance of the Bible I know some Christians to have to all Christians.

Yes, you are missing the point that false generalizations like this serve no purpose in a rational discussion.