Duvduv

An oral tradition can include a mishmash of fables and aphorisms that people think were said by the Jesus figure who they believed existed.

outhouse

I agree


most people dont understand how unimportant literature was back then. Everything was based on oral tradition due to the terrible illiteracy rate of roughly 90%

Oral tradition was found to be so very important to them and its how Paul could dream up his version of the legend.


I do follow Carrier and reccomend people to read his take on the importance of oral tradition

Toto

You haven't answered the question. What would motivate the 4th century church to invent basic facts about Marcion? Why would they claim that he had the letters of Paul? They probably lied about how much he mutilated them, but he had some version of Paul's letters.

What is your alternative theory?

aa5874

It was the complete opposite. Literature was EXTREMELY important since that was the ONLY means of recording information.

There were NO cameras, fax machines, audio and video recorder or CD's. Written information was needed in antiquity.

The very Paul will show that you are WRONG.

Paul got his Jesus story from WRITTEN SOURCES

1 Cor. 15 Paul got his Jesus story from written stories and invented other parts or used Hebrew Scripture.

It is NOT even plausible that the Pauline revelation gospel was known among the populace before Paul wrote his so-called letters.

The Pauline letters would have been OBSOLETE and without significance if every "tom, dick and harry" were already talking about them for years.

Duvduv

The claims can be based on hearsay and gossip, and exaggerations.
I don't believe there were any epistles around at the time identified with Marcion. Even Justin who supposedly lived at the same time as Marcion in Rome never mentions anything about Paul or epistles or any texts of Marcion.

outhouse

Not true

oral tradition was extremely accurate and had been in use for over a thousand years.

Literature was important but not widely used for common people because they could'nt read or write it.

Literature did get recorded but not for the common hard working man who only knew oral tradition.

remember 90% of people were forced to use oral tradtion effectively because its all they had.



paul also talked to ghost and claimed he got all his information from a ghost not any men.

so paul in fact contradicts himself here.

Duvduv

If the Paul figure shared ideas with others that floated around then it is possible there was an oral tradition related to a non-physical Christ before the letters appeared as a set. I don't think it all just appeared out of thin air.

outhouse

Hosea 6;2

outhouse

it didnt come out of thin air.


After jesus death the disciples were teaching through oral tradition, had the body been stolen and percieved as ressurrected this news would have flown around judaism at a amazing speed. the conditions were ripe for a new movement that made sense as most hard working followers of judaism viewed the current jewish governement as corrupt and infected with roman control.


paul was persecuting followers of the movement, and should have had knowledge of judaism and what this sect was all about and why. being a henchmen for the Sadducees he was aware of what was going on with the reform movement.

its exactly why we only have a mythical view of jesus and not a historical one

paul wrote and started mythical jesus

aa5874

You mean every Tom, dick and harry were already talking about the non-physical christ for years even before Paul??

Paul GOT his Jesus story from Scripture. It is right there in Corinthians.

Paul did NOT GET his gospel from man.

Paul did NOT get his gospel from oral tradition.

Paul claimed he got his gospel from the revelation of the Resurrected Jesus.

Why do you INSIST on oral tradition when you have ZERO evidence?

Paul is claiming that NO HUMAN Being knew of his gospel.