net2002

Are the contradictions in the NT a result of plagiarising and retelling of the original source?

Bumble Bee Tuna

how is anyone supposed to take this guy seriously when he says:

Wasn't the idea behind the debate that Gastrich would open the debate and be making the affirmative? And isn't it pretty self-evident that the burden of proof lies on the affirmative? Honestly that's some crazy stuff right there. Followed by a strawman of atheism in a paragraph on strawmen. Crazy stuff. Is he ever going to start making points?

-B

edited to split into two quotes

Farrell Till

I can tell you from experience that he won't. The guy just doesn't have a clue to what constitutes debating.

Doctor X

net2002:

Who knows? The problem is the contradictions such as whether or not Judas hung himself or exploded cannot be resolved based on the information available--indeed, some can argue a "real" Judas never existed. Also the texts argue for separate theologies . . . which one was "original?"

It remains an unproven assumption that a "real" story existed that everyone else screwed up--a story that has any theological relevance. The mythicists may argue you can "disprove" the theological stories by showing they are just reworked myth.

--J.D.

Kosh

In Star Trek II, The Wrath of Kahn, Khan confronts Chekov in the opening scene: "But you, I NEVER forget a face!".

The problem is, that the Chekov character did appear in the original series until after the "Space Seed" episode with Kahn had been filmed.

How do we account for this discrepency? The writer did not do a thorough job of research and missed the detail.

Multiple writers, not all sources available, and no omniscient producer to catch the errors...

Dean Anderson

HOW DARE YOU DOUBT THE INERRANCY OF STAR TREK!

The whole thing can be explained with some very simple apologetics.

Chekov was on the Enterprise right from the start, even though he didn't have a bridge position until the second series.

This is proved by the episode entitled 'The Tholian Web', where Kirk mentions the (non-existent) 'Corbomite' bomb. On mention of this Chekov turns round and smiles knowingly at Kirk, proving that he was on the ship for 'The Corbomite Maneuvre', which predates 'Space Seed' by quite a few episodes.

Just because he wasn't one of the bridge crew yet doesn't stop him from being on board and meeting Kahn.

(Damn! I'm such a Trekkie! Ahead, Geek Factor 5!)

gregor

Dr. X

While I've read numerous accounts of "Judas" as an anti-semite symbol, has anyone ever argued (in scholarly circles) that Judas' bursting innards was symbolic of the diaspora?

Kosh

Ah, but of course! "Reading between the lines", we can deduct that while escaping, he must have passed Chekov in the hall, bumping into him, then pausing for a moment to see his face, just before he threw Chekov into a bulkhead.

No consistency there, especially since documents showing the actor who played Chekov being hired by the studio after the episode was aired are considered apocryphal, and not part of the accepted Star Trek cannon (they were rejected because they didn't agree with the already accepted belief that Chekov had met Kahn).

:notworthy

Doctor X

Kosh:

If you cannot accept the Glory of Old Star Trek then I will pray for you. . . .

gregor:

Wow. Never heard of it, but that does not mean it has not been argued. I would wonder about it because if the diaspora was such a concern for Lk I would think he would make the commentary clearer. I always took it as a gross "comeupance." Why did Lk not use the "hanging" story? Judas hanging himself implies regret for his actions. In Lk he is killed by tripping/falling in the field he bought with the funds from his betrayal. It is a bit of a "hoist by his own Capt. Picard" . . . with enough grossness to satisfy a Roger Corman fan. . . .

--J.D.

emur

I thought "The Corbomite Maneuvre" was the episode in which the Enterprize came upon a revolving cube, which spun faster as the ship tried to get around it. Finally, the thing spun so fast that it exploded.

Shortly after that, a huge ship appeared, and when the occupant contacted the Enterprize, it threatened, in a deep ominous voice, to destroy the Enterprize in "ten earth minutes". The alien said it was doing this so that the crew could prepare for death with respect to whatever deity they looked to. That's when Kirk came up with the corbomite device. I remember Spock asking him what he was up to, and Kirk said something about not playing chess, but poker.

The alien bought into the maneuver, and ultimately invited Kirk and several others over to his ship. When they got there, the alien wasn't the homely looking thing the Enterprize bridge crew had seen on their view screen, but looked like a young, baby faced boy. Very friendly too. I think he offered Kirk some "tranya" sp? to drink.

That is my recollection of the "corbomite" episode. But since it has been a number of years since I last saw a rerun, I may be wrong.

Just like the bible. Stories get told and facts get distorted. Oh well.

Mel