Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jdlongmire · 07-07-2004, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blt to go

Plognark: I, too, saw the quote and almost commented on it. Good on ya for starting another thread.

1) There are too many ex-christians on this thread (myself included) that did this exact thing for decades, not just 2 months. And came up empty.

2) It is a "self-fulfilling" prophecy. If you look for "coincidences" and "god-moments" you will find them.

I would not recommend the extreme example Godless Wonder cited. Try something more simple. For two months concentrate on a particular word. For example, "inundated." You will be AMAZED at how many times this particular word will appear in print, be on TV, heard in the movies, etc. Is it an influx in the use of the word? No, you are simply noticing it because you are specifically looking for it. Society is not being inundated by it. (That's ONE.

)

How 'bout quidnunc?

Rational BAC · 07-07-2004, 09:04 PM

We are all self delusional. Atheists are. Theists are.

If you tell a lie enough times it seems to become the truth.

No one knows the truth in any way. Theists don't. Atheists don't. We are all lied to in our own minds. Or perhaps we are told the "truth" in our own minds.

So believe what you want to believe.

And disbelieve what you want to disbelieve if it makes you feel any better.----if in any way you think you have found any answers to any of your metaphysical questions that makes sense to you in any way.

What difference does it make?

To each his own. There is no "truth" you know. Just self delusion.

trendkill · 07-07-2004, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rational BAC

We are all self delusional. Atheists are. Theists are.

If you tell a lie enough times it seems to become the truth.

No one knows the truth in any way. Theists don't. Atheists don't. We are all lied to in our own minds. Or perhaps we are told the "truth" in our own minds.

So believe what you want to believe.

And disbelieve what you want to disbelieve if it makes you feel any better.----if in any way you think you have found any answers to any of your metaphysical questions that makes sense to you in any way.

What difference does it make?

To each his own. There is no "truth" you know. Just self delusion.

"Moved by Rational BAC's speech, everyone agreed that it makes no difference what you believe. Then they all went off into the desert to stockpile weapons and wait for the return of David Koresh. The End."

Queen of Swords · 07-07-2004, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by converted

My recommendation - This will sound crazy to an athiest

It doesn't just sound crazy.

Quote:

For two months pretend there is a God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit

Firstly, why two months (and is it exactly two months or does one of the months not count if it's February)? Does it take two months for god to get around to noticing you?

Moreover, if I tried this experiment with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, I'd have to try it with Allah, Krishna, Odin, Zeus, Coyote, Minerva, Okeus, the IPU and every other deity out there. In other words, I'd waste much of my life playing the Make Believe Religion game.

Quote:

and pray with all of your heart for an answer or sign about some issue in your life and see if "coincidences" don't increase.

Maybe the coincidences only increase because you're noticing them, looking out for them or expecting them to happen. Moreover, if there was a god and if it wanted to get in touch with me, I would expect more than coincidences. IMO, the kind of god who expresses himself through coincidences is like the kind of suitor who traces a quick, furtive heart in the dust on your car before he scuttles back into hiding like a frightened millipede.

Quote:

You won't be able to convince anyone with evidence

Wrong again. But perhaps this is what consoles the people who have no evidence.

Plognark · 07-08-2004, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rational BAC

To each his own. There is no "truth" you know. Just self delusion.

Right up until the bus flattens you like oversized roadkill

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlongmire

How 'bout quidnunc?

Uhhh....what?

Heathen Dawn · 07-08-2004, 06:59 AM

The Argument from Personal Experience is the one I definitely don’t recommend monotheists to try out, as the carrying of it to its logical conclusion inevitably leads to polytheism.

capsaicin67 · 07-08-2004, 07:16 AM

I recommend [NOT] that people go try heroin and see how great it feels. I feel pretty confident that within 2 mos of steady, sincere, dedicated use, Trainspotting will mean more than it did to you before.

Disclaimer: Incidentally, despite all my addictions metaphors/analogies, I'm not an ex-junkie of any sort, and most of my "addictions" are more mundane. But I understand the general dynamic based on my mundane life and working in healthcare etc. so i use such examples a lot.

never been there · 07-08-2004, 07:19 AM

Covered that one in Psych - it's all about cognitive dissonance avoidance. It's counterintuitive but demonstrable that behaviour influences belief more strongly than the other way around.

I came across it again in Instant Manager 101 class - how to deal with bigoted subordinates. You just tell them they're well paid to get along with colleagues of different sex/ethnicity/religion so they can just do it. Over time, if you enforce the behaviour, their beliefs will change.

And to think I only took Psych because nothing else would fit my schedule. Most useful course I ever took.

jdlongmire · 07-08-2004, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plognark

Uhhh....what?

Quote:

Try something more simple. For two months concentrate on a particular word. For example, "inundated." You will be AMAZED at how many times this particular word will appear in print, be on TV, heard in the movies, etc. Is it an influx in the use of the word? No, you are simply noticing it because you are specifically looking for it. Society is not being inundated by it.

...just recommending an alternate word for the experiment...

quidnunc...

Jade · 07-08-2004, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plognark

Uhhh....what?

From Dictionary.com:

Quote:

Quidnunc: One who is curious to know everything that passes; one who knows or pretends to know all that is going on; a gossip; a busybody.

Quidnunc comes from Latin quid nunc?, "what now?"

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07-07-2004, 09:04 PM	#12
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	We are all self delusional. Atheists are. Theists are. If you tell a lie enough times it seems to become the truth. No one knows the truth in any way. Theists don't. Atheists don't. We are all lied to in our own minds. Or perhaps we are told the "truth" in our own minds. So believe what you want to believe. And disbelieve what you want to disbelieve if it makes you feel any better.----if in any way you think you have found any answers to any of your metaphysical questions that makes sense to you in any way. What difference does it make? To each his own. There is no "truth" you know. Just self delusion.

07-08-2004, 06:59 AM	#16
Heathen Dawn Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 4,656	The Argument from Personal Experience is the one I definitely don’t recommend monotheists to try out, as the carrying of it to its logical conclusion inevitably leads to polytheism.

07-08-2004, 07:16 AM	#17
capsaicin67 Contributor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gold coast plain, sea, scrubland, mountain range. Posts: 20,955	I recommend [NOT] that people go try heroin and see how great it feels. I feel pretty confident that within 2 mos of steady, sincere, dedicated use, Trainspotting will mean more than it did to you before. Disclaimer: Incidentally, despite all my addictions metaphors/analogies, I'm not an ex-junkie of any sort, and most of my "addictions" are more mundane. But I understand the general dynamic based on my mundane life and working in healthcare etc. so i use such examples a lot.

07-08-2004, 07:19 AM	#18
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	Covered that one in Psych - it's all about cognitive dissonance avoidance. It's counterintuitive but demonstrable that behaviour influences belief more strongly than the other way around. I came across it again in Instant Manager 101 class - how to deal with bigoted subordinates. You just tell them they're well paid to get along with colleagues of different sex/ethnicity/religion so they can just do it. Over time, if you enforce the behaviour, their beliefs will change. And to think I only took Psych because nothing else would fit my schedule. Most useful course I ever took.

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