ichabod crane

I'm implying that you don't understand the history of the religion that you adhere to.

Nonsense and contrary to all the evidence. Even the article you quote admits that 'El was originally a deity in the Canaanite pantheon; that was the origin of Judaism's monotheism. I note that you don't present any evidence. Please cite evidence of monotheism in its original form emerging prior to polytheism.

Nope, just reading scholars in the field. And you are living in a state of denial.

No, I read part and then scanned through the rest. But since even just the preface was filled with so many basic errors that anyone who had training in the field would know, why should I bother reading the rest and refuting it in detail? I've got better things to do with my time. You claim that the author is to be respected because he knows several languages. Well I know three languages, including both Hebrew and ancient (Koine) Greek very well, and I was easily able to see how many linguistic mistakes he made. Not to mention his errors at other levels.

I notice you've failed to address my criticisms of the work. Perhaps you didn't read my response? Why should I continue my critique, when you haven't even addressed the points I made? Or perhaps you yourself are too ignorant of ancient languages to be able to make an intelligent contribution?

River

According to the Holy Qur'an ....Abraham's father used to build idols...thus, you are right in the sense that Abraham came from a polytheistic home. However, in the Holy Qur'an Abraham (pbuh) is seen as a stark Monotheist and he is not wishy-washy about his beliefs.

Contrary to popular opinion, Abraham was not the founder or Patriarch of Monotheistic relgion. Prophet Magi/Zoroaster (pbuh) also originally taught a Monotheistic religious system...before polythiestic pagan influences pervaded the religion....


----River

River

No one takes Robert Morey's "moon god theories" seriously anymore . Its been long debunked. Only Christian evangelists have clung desperately to Robert Morey's " Moon god" Nonsense.

Check out this EMBARRASSING cartoon representation that is propagated by some christian evangelists ( they love the Robert Morey bunk)

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp

---River

River

Listen ...your argument appeals to those that do not want to entertain the faculty of reason and deduction.....

The Alaskan Inuits call G-d and "vital energy" by the name " Ela". I guess using your logic they pray to the ancient deity in the Canaanite pantheon.

---River

P.S: I have a better understanding of my religion and history than you do. I have studied Sunni , Shia and Sufi beliefs relatively thoroughly ....the esoteric and the exoteric and the eschatological....

ichabod crane

No, because the word is etymologically unrelated to Canaanite. However, the Hebrew 'El clearly is related to Canaanite, and we know both from the Ugaritic texts and from the Bible itself (Isaiah 19:18) that Hebrew was derived from Canaanite language. Furthermore, numerous of the titles of 'El in the Pentateuch are actually titles also ascribed to the chief deity of the Canaanite pantheon. Since you are obviously completely ignorant on this subject, I've included some references below which you can read if you want to.

As for Robert Morey, it does you no credit to keep introducing him as a straw man. Arab polytheism is recognised by EVERY reputable scholar in the field. I have a question for you. What was the religion of the Arab tribespeople prior to the coming of Muhammad? Answer: polytheism. What was the name of the chief deity in the pantheon? Answer: Allah.

References if you're interested in following it up:

Cross, F.M. 1973. Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic: Essays in the History of the Religion of Israel, Harvard University Press, Cambridge (Massachusetts).

De Moor, J.C. 1990. The Rise of Yahwehism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism, Leuven University Press, Leuven.

Keel, O. & Uehlinger, C. 1998. Gods, Goddesses, and Images of God in Ancient Israel, trans. T.H. Trapp, T & T Clark, Edinburgh.

Mettinger, T.N.D. 1995. No Graven Image? Israelite Aniconism in its Ancient Near Eastern Context, Almqvist & Wiksell International, Stockholm.

River

I will quote the author Abu Jamal ....as I believe he stated it best:

Certainly the similar linguistics used between the ancient Hebrews and the Canaanite pagans does not imply that their gods are the same! If there was ever an `Arabian pagan deity named anything sounding similar to "Allah" then certainly it is because "Allah" means "the God." Thus, someone naming a god would be likely to touch the linguistic root of A-L-L-H. So too is this the case with "El" being a Canaanite pagan deity and also the name of the god of the Children of Israel.

Similarly I believe the Alaskan Innuits also call G-d , "Ela" because it has to do with our human collective unconscious. The word " Allah" has universal appeal and several key religions whether Monotheistic or Polytheistic have touched upon this key root......

Take for example , the word "Mother", " Mama" , "Ma", " Amma" , "Ammu" .....all of these words indicate " Mother"....the root of the word is almost Universal and perhaps the very word itself carries a deep metaphysic essence ...that can best be expressed by those roots....


---River

chimaira

for youre information river and all .

http://www.beconvinced.com/RELIGION/WASJESUSCRU.htm

Ps : me no Chiite

dado

i find it fascinating that story ends up in the Qur'an. it is an important story in Judaism, but it is Midrashic, not Torahic, which means it was created by the very same scribes you so routinely dismiss as "corrupting" the texts.

chimaira

Jérémiah 8,8 ...

River

Well, the story found in the Midrash isn't identical to whats found in the Qur'an . Abraham (pbuh) is said to visit his wife, Hajar and his eldest son in Mecca quite frequently . In Islam, Abraham and his eldest son helped ressurect the Kaaba ( under the instruction of Gabriel)which sunk into the sands after many years......these accounts can not be traced back to Midrash.

Secondly, I did not mean that all the scribes are corrupt. Some were corrupt and some were not. Clearly, there is some truth in the Tanakh, the Midrash, the Torah, the NT and the Apochrypa...( although scattered and buried" into the sands after many years")....

---River