Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Horatio Parker · 11-09-2011, 10:16 PM

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I am really amazed how people here seem offended when they are challenged.

It's not offense. It's frustration. You don't communicate; you lecture.

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Let us deal with gMark which is considered the earliest Gospel in the Canon.

Let's not.

Limiting the discussion to gMark is too narrow a focus. The argument discussed in the OP covers millennia and a multitude of writers.

aa5874 · 11-09-2011, 11:02 PM

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I am really amazed how people here seem offended when they are challenged.

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Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

It's not offense. It's frustration. You don't communicate; you lecture.

I am a lecturer. What are you?

The OP is titled "Shameful crucifixion, therefore true"

What is the significance of the crucifixion in gMark?

After going through the Entire gMark, the crucifixion signified REJECTION of Jesus by the Jews in gMark considered the earliest Jesus story.

The REJECTION and Crucifixion of Jesus because of the Jews was BELIEVED to be the reason for the Fall of the Jewish Temple.

In gMark, Salvation for the Jews was NOT to be achieved through the crucifixion it was ACHIEVED Once the Jews BELIEVED gMark's JESUS was the CHRIST

Salvation for JEWS was to BELIEVE gMark's Jesus Christ story.

Mark 13.5-6

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And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you, 6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. ......... And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake, but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

In the earliest Jesus story the Crucifixion did NOT Signify Salvation it was the Jesus story itself.

The author of gMark wanted the Jews to BELIEVE in his INVENTED Christ NOT the Jewish Christ.

The author of gMark BELIEVED that BELIEF in his INVENTED Christ by Jews was the ONLY way for them to be SAVED from destruction.

Horatio Parker · 11-10-2011, 07:26 AM

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Originally Posted by aa5874

Salvation for JEWS was to BELIEVE gMark's Jesus Christ story.

In the earliest Jesus story the Crucifixion did NOT Signify Salvation it was the Jesus story itself.

The author of gMark wanted the Jews to BELIEVE in his INVENTED Christ NOT the Jewish Christ.

The author of gMark BELIEVED that BELIEF in his INVENTED Christ by Jews was the ONLY way for them to be SAVED from destruction.

Is salvation different for the Jews as opposed to Gentiles? Or is salvation the same for all?

aa5874 · 11-10-2011, 09:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

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Originally Posted by aa5874

Salvation for JEWS was to BELIEVE gMark's Jesus Christ story.

In the earliest Jesus story the Crucifixion did NOT Signify Salvation it was the Jesus story itself.

The author of gMark wanted the Jews to BELIEVE in his INVENTED Christ NOT the Jewish Christ.

The author of gMark BELIEVED that BELIEF in his INVENTED Christ by Jews was the ONLY way for them to be SAVED from destruction.

Is salvation different for the Jews as opposed to Gentiles? Or is salvation the same for all?

gMark answers your question. Please read it.

Mark 4.10-12

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... And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables,

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Remarkably, Jesus was a DECEIVER in gMark.

Jesus in gMark did NOT want the Jews to be FORGIVEN of their Sins so he DELIBERATELY spoke in Parables "lest their Sins be Forgiven them."

Jesus in gMark KNEW very well in ADVANCE that the Jews would NOT have understood him.

gMark's Jesus came to MAKE SURE the Jews would REMAIN in Sin and that the words of the Prophet will come to pass.

But, how LONG MUST the Jews remain in Sin? How long must the Jews NOT understand and NOT perceive?

What was predicted by the PROPHET?

Mark 4.12 appears to be from the book of the PROPHET Isaiah.

Look at Isaiah 6.

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9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

11 Then said I, Lord, how long?

And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate....

gMark's Jesus came to DECEIVE the Jews, make their EARS heavy and SHUT their eyes UNTIL the Cities be wasted.

Once you read gMark, you will NOT have to SPECULATE. You will get DATA to show that the crucifixion of Jesus did NOT signify salvation just REJECTION.

Once you read gMark you will get DATA to show that gMark's Jesus did NOT come to SAVE the Jews but to MAKE sure that they REMAIN Unconverted Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate.

Or until c70 CE when the Jewish Temple fell and the city of Jerusalem was wasted.

There is NO need to SPECULATE when we have gMark.

Horatio Parker · 11-10-2011, 10:50 AM

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Originally Posted by aa5874

There is NO need to SPECULATE when we have gMark.

In the context of this thread, this material has *zero* interest for me. That's all for now...

aa5874 · 11-10-2011, 02:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

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Originally Posted by aa5874

There is NO need to SPECULATE when we have gMark.

In the context of this thread, this material has *zero* interest for me. That's all for now...

Well, in gMark it is claimed Jesus was crucified so I really don't understand how in the world gMark is NOT RELEVANT to the context of this thread.

Mark 15.

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...12 And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?

13 And they cried out again, Crucify him.

14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done?

And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.

In gMark, the crucifixion of Jesus did NOT signify Salvation but REJECTION.

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