Jayhawker Soule

So you accept (infer) the historicity of an early Jesus sect in Jerusalem?

angelo

All your arguments still fail to answer, why if such a being existed, who worked all manner of miracles, is not recognized by most writers of the time.
If a man was resucitated from the dead, I'm sure someone outside of the gospels would have recorded such an amazing event. And early Christians would have preserved such a record with their lives.

Roger Pearse

I note that you have ignored what I wrote. This is merely a reiteration of your orginal statement.

I'm sorry to see this, since, of course, it means that there is no purpose in me writing further, if you aren't going to reply.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

aa5874

What! Who is Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul? If we have to write history on what people do say, then there will be no history of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and the many possibles Pauls.

And by the way, how many times did Josephus or Tacitus mention Apollo and did they mention any similarities between Jesus and Apollo?

Amaleq13

Do you think every alleged miracle-worker in the 1st century was written about by writers of the time? Even those who spent the majority of their time wandering the countryside impressing the credulous country bumpkins?

Based on the earliest "outside" reactions to Christianity we have, the beliefs of Christians were known but dismissed and reviled as the superstitious beliefs of ignorant hicks.

There is absolutely no reason to think that anyone besides the small group that originally held these silly, superstitious beliefs took them seriously for quite some time.

Roger Pearse

I agree. We might ask why would Juvenal, for instance, feel the need to do so?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Doug Shaver

Yes. Paul attests to the sect's existence, and I have yet to find a credible argument against the authenticity of the documents in which he does so.

spin

A Jesus sect or a messiah sect?


spin

angelo

On the contrary, I have noted what you wrote and have taken it on-board. You make a good argument and I love other people's views. There is no other way to learn other people's viewpoint on various subjects such as these to make my curiosity even more sharper. First thing tomorrow, I will be in Borders book store, looking for books on the subject were discussing. regards. Angelo

Roger Pearse

Good for you. Might I offer a suggestion? I always go for the ancient sources. I've found that modern people can write the most utter nonsense sometimes -- usually modern political or religious bias is the reason --, and knowledge of the entire data base of ancient literature on the subject (which is not extensive, thus not hard to acquire) is the best defence against being misled.

Possibly not quite relevant -- did Remsburg give the name? --, but I like the Penguin translation of the "Letters of the Younger Pliny" (or via: amazon.co.uk) (by Betty Radice, if I recall correctly). It gives such a picture of the life of a Roman at that period. Book 10 contains the two letters about the Christians he encountered while governor of Bithynia; but the whole book is rather a joy (at least to me). Worth a look if you spot it for sale, anyhow.

(Mistake: I recall that you got the 'list' from F&G and not from their source, Remsburg, but that's incidental).

All the best,

Roger Pearse