Kosh

So are you saying there is evidence? What is it?

Toto

In the [historical fiction] Book of Acts, Paul was bitten by a snake on the island of Malta, and he brushed it off, astounding those who watched. But there have never been any poisonous snakes on the Island of Malta, (or any other island, for reasons which can be explained by Darwinian evolution.) So even if this snake attack did happen, it was no miracle.

In Paul's authentic letters, he speaks at times of his physical afflictions. It appears that Jesus did not protect his health.

Toto

On Secret Mark, Stephen Carlson, who posts here, has recently published a generally well received book that argues that Secret Mark was forged by Morton Smith. The Gospel Hoax: Morton Smith's Invention of Secret Mark (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Malachi151

Well, perhaps it if a fake. It would be nice to get something definative on this.

Mythra

You betcha. And there is also good evidence that lots of people have claimed to have been abducted by aliens.

Amaleq13

Isn't there a difference between whether Clement really wrote the letter and whether he was correct in his description/explanation of Secret Mark?

Mythra

What is disingenuous is the way fundamental christians will vehemently insist that all of Jesus' miraculous healings actually happened.

But the miracles of Appolonius, Asclepius, Pythagoras, or even Joseph Smith are phony.

When the proof for all of them is exactly the same.

Haran

Why is it disingenuous? Christians believe, by faith, that only the God of the Christians exists. Therefore, the others' miracles must be phony.

Solo

Oh please ! Forget the phony travelling freak shows for a minute ! Everyone in the medical profesion knows the importance of the patient's attitude and if faith means simply "never give up" than faith healing is not just reality but banal truth. That some people invoke Jesus, and others wood fairies, and others nothing-in-particular, is really given by their cultural milieu, education, imagination.

There have been people whose cures were nothing short of miraculous - my great aunt fought her recurring cancer for twenty two years, there was no chemotherapy available then. She was convinced that it was her special relationship with the Virgin. You can say it wasn't but I remember (I was about fifteen) when, after her death, her doctor related to my mother how she often prayed aloud for hours in the hospital and how she drove everyone nuts. My mum, forever the good Catholic, demanded to know if the doc thought it was a miracle she held up that long. I remember his answer to this day: "You might as well call it that, because I have no explanation for two comebacks from metastatic cancer." So let's just say that the Virgin worked for her ! Fair ?

JS

aa5874

So we can safely say that all these faith healers throughout history are frauds and this also includes fundanmentalists.

The unknown author of the book of Matthew18:19-20 KJV states, 'Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
'For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them'.

The unknown author of the book of John 14:12 writes. 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father'.

Magus 55, remember the saying of the so called Christ , 'All things are possible to those who believe'. Believe ye this?