Yellum Notnef

What kind of stuff would an archaeological dig need to find to prove such a thing anyway?

I have no idea what someone would expect to find that would be absolutely conclusive.

spamandham

Whether Jesus existed or not has very little impact on my life, so to me personally, it wouldn't matter.

However, Christians would not accept it, so it would result in endless debate. I suppose that could be mildly entertaining for a while.

Yellum Notnef

But what could "it" be? Any text would be picked apart and debated over until the end of time leaving the possibility of Jesus intact. So what else?

spamandham

Agreed. Nothing could disprove the existence of Jesus to Christians. But to those without an emotional investment, ordinary evidence would suffice.

For example, if we found a late 1st century BCE text that substituted the Greek transliteration 'Jesus' for Joshua in otherwise familar OT stories about Joshua, and if that same text referred to him as Christ, or included some of the miracle stories from the NT in an earlier time setting, it would be slam dunk proof that Jesus was not historical.

ApostateAbe

It would be absolutely huge. Once people gain their beliefs, they generally refuse to give up the belief even in light of the evidence, but think about what it does to their level of confidence, and think about the next generation. At the least, Christianity would have to drastically change in order to remain popular. Don't underestimate the impact of evidence. It would become the defining issue of religious debate. Even Islam and secular New Testament scholarship would be thrown into disarray.

spin

Christianity teaches believers to be crafty contortionists. Just look at the history of the church up to and including the ridiculous trinity scandal, the development of the doublethink over three entities being well, you know, kinda one. Backed into a corner trying to respond to the nature of Jesus who theologically reflects not the messiah but the savior, have turned Jesus into "I'll just come down and sacrifice myself to me in order to repeal my laws". Jesus is well, you know, kinda god -- decided by a lot of politics and physical aggression. Hey, well those damned Arians deserved it trying to pervert the gospel we were in the process of rewriting for clarity.

It becomes easy to deny what is apparently plain. The pope refused to look through Galileo's telescope because it was the work of the devil. Science had become a pick and choose smorgasbord. "We don't mind this bit, but that evolutionary stuff is unpalatable." "Yeah, so is this big bang slop, but stargazing astronomy and birdwatching ethology are stirling."

Carbon dating has been both not understood and repudiated at the same time because it indicates that things are older than the bible allows.

The rule, when in doubt, is trust in the bible and everything that attempts to undermine it must be wrong. Ice cores? Dendrochronology? All devil's games. Anything that tries to tell you that there was no flood or no exodus or no united monarchy is obviously misguided.

Any evidence that came along that said Jesus didn't exist would plainly have been fabricated. Any such evidence is not important because it is untruthful.


spin

mountainman

Here are some possible finds:

(1) the original three books written by Emperor Julian "Against the Christians".

(2) the missing books 1 to 13 of Ammianus Marcellinus.

(3) many more new testament apocryphal texts C14 dated to the 4th century.

(4) earthquake at Vatican - archives spill to streets

(5) objective search through all Vatican archives

(6) Reviews of the reception of the NT at Nicaea by non-christians

(7) A non christian eyewitness history written for the 4th century.

(8) The missing original histories of Eunapius or Philostorgius

(9) Constantine's Will

Yellum Notnef

I like Pete's #4.

Susan2

And? Are you saying that atheist are not crafty? Or, that they don’t have the intellect to be crafty?

Are Jews, crafty, or do they not have the intellect to be crafty?

How about Islamist? Are they crafty, or do they not have the intellect to be crafty?

Buddhists? Hindues? Mormons?

The Trinity Doctrine is a true doctrine, an honest doctrine, a worth doctrine. A necessary doctrine. Why necessary? Because atheists and theists are crafty.

This is recognized by the founding fathers of both state and church. It is probably why the Protestants hate the Catholics so much. And why fundamentalist of any persuasion hate the concept of a trinity. Foundational trinities have always existed.

Sun, Moon, Earth

Philosophy/religion, secular government, science

Mother, Father, Child(ren)

Protein, vegtables, fruit

Reading, writing, arithmatic

Bacon, Eggs, Hash Browns


Yes. They wanted Barabbas. He said **** ***, then ran off with Salome. Having become a good little Jewish boy.

No "kind of" about it. Jesus is God.


Somebody had to be in charge. And so he mentor-ed Peter. Peter was paying attention. Jesus said/commanded, that before the crows twice, thou shall deny me three times. And sure enough, Peter eventually catches on, though he is initially confused.



Science is not understood because it is often difficult to understand. People are not given the education to understand it, or, they are cheated out of the very education they need and deserve to understand it. Some people do not have the intellect to understand it.

Some scientists have been disreputable, tarnishing the subject, hence the endeavors of the honest scientists. Unfortunately the bad ones ususally get the press.



4.5+ million USA public school children have been sexually assaulted by teachers over the past 10 years. This figure does not include those children who have been traumatized by physical assault such as hitting, nor does it include the trauma of verbal abuse, of either their teachers or peers. Nor does it include traumas from family life, nor poverty.

Children who are traumatized have difficulty learning.

How does secularism propose to turn those statistics around, so that children can be given what is considered a basic human right; education.

If secularism does not have a plan, shall they be abandoned? And if they turn to religion because it’s doors are wide open, whose fault is that? Did secularism kick them in?

Bluster.


spin

Zenaphobe

There are people who still believe in a world covering deluge and a 6000 year old universe in spite of massive amounts of evidence that neither is true.

Would a piece of parchment that proves there was no historical Jesus be the nail in the coffin?

Lemme think about that. :constern01:

Um, no?

Faith in spite of the evidence is considered a commendable trait in some circles of believers, so don't hold your breath.