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Old 08-01-2011, 10:32 AM   #11
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How about we just call it 'disliked'?
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Old 08-01-2011, 02:23 PM   #12
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I am not sure that Mark intended to say that Capernaum was Jesus' home town. Contextually, the alternative reading to εν οικω is εις οικον (in the house) taken up, e.g. by the KJV translators. In Mark's narrative the report that Jesus is "in the house" opens up the healing of the paralytic story and evidently accounts for the overcrowding of the place. More to the point, it is hard to imagine that when Jesus goes "to his native country" (εις την πατριδα αυτου) in 6:1, it is Capernaum and people there were holding their indignation at the new career of the carpenter until his third visit. It also kinda screws up the "no one is a prophet in his own house" line.

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Old 08-01-2011, 05:41 PM   #13
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I am not sure that Mark intended to say that Capernaum was Jesus' home town. Contextually, the alternative reading to εν οικω is εις οικον (in the house) taken up, e.g. by the KJV translators. In Mark's narrative the report that Jesus is "in the house" opens up the healing of the paralytic story and evidently accounts for the overcrowding of the place.
εις οικον is just as idiomatic in Greek as εν οικω. Translating either as "in the house" ignores the fact that there is no article. L&S indicate the language situation clearly.

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More to the point, it is hard to imagine that when Jesus goes "to his native country" (εις την πατριδα αυτου) in 6:1, it is Capernaum and people there were holding their indignation at the new career of the carpenter until his third visit. It also kinda screws up the "no one is a prophet in his own house" line.
It's not hard to deal with the evidence that Mark is a redacted collection of traditions. One tradition talks of an unnamed native country, while another talks of Jesus being at home in Capernaum. You'd think that that unnamed native country would be named if the tradition knew such a name. Other traditions have Jesus gathering large crowds wherever he went and yet the people in his own native country haven't heard of his words and deeds. The native country story is isolated from other traditions collected in Mark and works on different narrative necessities, which allow for the "prophet in his own house" motif, though it doesn't make much sense if read in the light of the implications of the wider text.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:45 AM   #14
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I am not sure that Mark intended to say that Capernaum was Jesus' home town. Contextually, the alternative reading to εν οικω is εις οικον (in the house) taken up, e.g. by the KJV translators. In Mark's narrative the report that Jesus is "in the house" opens up the healing of the paralytic story and evidently accounts for the overcrowding of the place.
εις οικον is just as idiomatic in Greek as εν οικω. Translating either as "in the house" ignores the fact that there is no article. L&S indicate the language situation clearly.
So how would you render e.g. ἐν οἴκῳ Δαυὶδ (Lk 1:69) or ἐν οἴκῳ θεοῦ (1 Ti 3:15) ?


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More to the point, it is hard to imagine that when Jesus goes "to his native country" (εις την πατριδα αυτου) in 6:1, it is Capernaum and people there were holding their indignation at the new career of the carpenter until his third visit. It also kinda screws up the "no one is a prophet in his own house" line.
It's not hard to deal with the evidence that Mark is a redacted collection of traditions. One tradition talks of an unnamed native country, while another talks of Jesus being at home in Capernaum. You'd think that that unnamed native country would be named if the tradition knew such a name. Other traditions have Jesus gathering large crowds wherever he went and yet the people in his own native country haven't heard of his words and deeds. The native country story is isolated from other traditions collected in Mark and works on different narrative necessities, which allow for the "prophet in his own house" motif, though it doesn't make much sense if read in the light of the implications of the wider text.
The problem is, there is no such evidence. This is your way of reading what appears to be a contradiction. For all you know the "tradition" that Jesus moved to Capernaum could have originated in Matthew who certainly had his reasons for it. Making Jesus a native of Capernaum tied Jesus closer to Peter (8:14). Luke, who it appears knew Matthew, might have redacted out this piece of Peter-mongering just as he dropped the Jesus benediction of Peter (Mt 16:17), and Peter's first 'prompting' and then 'hearing' the voice from heaven on the mountain during the transfig (17:5-6).

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Old 08-07-2011, 06:16 PM   #15
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I am not sure that Mark intended to say that Capernaum was Jesus' home town. Contextually, the alternative reading to εν οικω is εις οικον (in the house) taken up, e.g. by the KJV translators. In Mark's narrative the report that Jesus is "in the house" opens up the healing of the paralytic story and evidently accounts for the overcrowding of the place.
εις οικον is just as idiomatic in Greek as εν οικω. Translating either as "in the house" ignores the fact that there is no article. L&S indicate the language situation clearly.
So how would you render e.g. ἐν οἴκῳ Δαυὶδ (Lk 1:69) or ἐν οἴκῳ θεοῦ (1 Ti 3:15) ?
Just as they indicate. I said the idiom was εν οικω, not εν οικω [person name]. In English "in prison" is an idiom, but "in Prison Four" isn't. In Italian "a casa" is an idiom, but "a casa Verdi" isn't.

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More to the point, it is hard to imagine that when Jesus goes "to his native country" (εις την πατριδα αυτου) in 6:1, it is Capernaum and people there were holding their indignation at the new career of the carpenter until his third visit. It also kinda screws up the "no one is a prophet in his own house" line.
It's not hard to deal with the evidence that Mark is a redacted collection of traditions. One tradition talks of an unnamed native country, while another talks of Jesus being at home in Capernaum. You'd think that that unnamed native country would be named if the tradition knew such a name. Other traditions have Jesus gathering large crowds wherever he went and yet the people in his own native country haven't heard of his words and deeds. The native country story is isolated from other traditions collected in Mark and works on different narrative necessities, which allow for the "prophet in his own house" motif, though it doesn't make much sense if read in the light of the implications of the wider text.
The problem is, there is no such evidence. This is your way of reading what appears to be a contradiction. For all you know the "tradition" that Jesus moved to Capernaum could have originated in Matthew who certainly had his reasons for it. Making Jesus a native of Capernaum tied Jesus closer to Peter (8:14). Luke, who it appears knew Matthew, might have redacted out this piece of Peter-mongering just as he dropped the Jesus benediction of Peter (Mt 16:17), and Peter's first 'prompting' and then 'hearing' the voice from heaven on the mountain during the transfig (17:5-6).
Wishful.
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:17 PM   #16
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For all you know the "tradition" that Jesus moved to Capernaum could have originated in Matthew who certainly had his reasons for it. Making Jesus a native of Capernaum tied Jesus closer to Peter (8:14). Luke, who it appears knew Matthew, might have redacted out this piece of Peter-mongering just as he dropped the Jesus benediction of Peter (Mt 16:17), and Peter's first 'prompting' and then 'hearing' the voice from heaven on the mountain during the transfig (17:5-6).
Wishful.
No kidding !

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