Bede

Well no. But I am an academic who researches medieval and early modern science. This means that if such Pope or theologian existed then I would have heard about them as I keep a close eye on any scholarship that appears in learned journals on the matter.

Cosmas, who wasn't a theologian, did argue for a flat earth and was ignored. The others (Lactantius (245-325) calls it "folly" because people on a sphere would fall down; Saint Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386) saw Earth as a firmament floating on water; Saint John Chrysostom (344-408) saw a spherical Earth as contradictory to scripture; Severian, Bishop of Gabala (d. 408) and Diodorus of Tarsus (d. 394) argued for a flat Earth) are sometimes mentioned but I have never seen quotations given so assume that they probably said less than they did not say quite what is alleged. For instance if I say 'the four corners of the earth', or 'to the ends of the earth' I am not a flat earther. Previously, scholars assumed wrongly that all such remarks were meant literally when they were not. Lactantius did believe the earth was a sphere, but he also wrongly believed that Aussies would fall off, as many a child in the northern hemisphere has to have explained to them even today.

Would flat earthism be heresy? Dunno as the case never came up as no one educated believed it. But to claim that the bible meant the earth must be flat when Augustine and Aquinas et al said it did not would very probably have been deemed heretical as it would have been contradicting the fathers.

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

Anglican

Hardly, they are not the only ones whose writing has survived so it certainly was not a majority opinion in the early church. It ceratinly has been argued that Bible teaches that the Earth is flat, but as this has never been a tecahing of the Church it would be silly to argue that this is the only or even the most obvious interpretation.

Clearly your point only illustartes why not all the passage should or have been read in the most literal sense.

Anglican

Yes, but as I siad before this was not the only or the majotrity view of the church fathers and Flat Earthism was never a real feature of the later church.

Sven

Let me ask again: Do you (or anyone else) have writings of every single theologian of this time, especially every single pope?
Apparently not.

Thus the only claim which is possible is this: No theologians and/or popes are known who advocated a flat Earth. Your claim that there indeed were none isn't supported at all.

Clivedurdle

Have we answered the OP - Does it say anywhere in the Bible that this is a geocentric universe?



Odd news

Boro Nut

I'm pretty sure you mean the Arabs don't you? Even by this early date they had already established an unrivalled reputation for being the masters of picking things up and running with them.

Boro Nut

Jehanne

as I stated in other threads, the six-day creation story, the existence of Adam & Eve, and geocentricism were all Church dogmas, either defined by Church councils and/or the collective writings of the Church Fathers. The Earth being a sphere or a "pancake" was clearly never defined. It fell into the genre of "theological opinion".

Bede

Still wrong. The earth being a sphere was clearly defined by the fathers of the church such as Augustine, Aqunias and many others. It was just as clearly defined as geocentricism.

Anyway, we have discovered the truth of the flat earth myth and I'm not wasting any more time with it.

Ta,

Bede

Jehanne

Denzinger's Sources of Catholic Dogma:

http://www.catholictreasures.com/cartdescrip/11181.html

I have read it in its entirety. Please show me where the Catholic Church defined the Earth as being a sphere. For more on Henry Denzinger, see this:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04736b.htm

For the canons of Trent, see this:

http://history.hanover.edu/early/trent.htm

Nothing on geocentrism or the shape of the Earth.

Regards,

Don

Bede

If you claim the earth is flat and that the fathers and the magistratum of the Catholic Church had misinterpreted their bibles in beleiving it a sphere, you would would be a heretic. The earth as a sphere is unanimously defined by the fathers who express an opinion, which is the very definition of Catholic tradition which is binding on Catholics.

The only reason that we have a definition against heliocentricism is because the matter came up with Galileo. Oddly, while heliocentricism is formally heretical, not being a geocentricist is merely erronous in faith - wrong but not illegal. If someone had said the earth was flat (and was getting attention rather than being treated as a nutter) they would have suffered the same fate as Galileo. You are claiming that theologians were free to claim the earth was flat if they wanted. In fact, they could not have done this.

This all ignores the fact you have already lost the original argument when you claimed wrongly, after Sagan, that "it was popular in certain theological circles during the Middle Ages to assert that the Earth was, in fact, flat". Why not just leave it at that rather than try to find a straw to clutch on?

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason