Freethought & Rationalism Archive

12-23-2003, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gregor

Anyway, regarding early fifth century astronomy and mathematics and its impact on creating a calendar, Duncan cites Augustine's disapproval of these and quotes from a letter written in 404 CE "In the Gospel we do not read that the Lord said: I am sending you the Holy spirit so that he can teach you about the course of the sun and the moon. He wanted to make Christians, not mathematicians."

So Augustine doesn't say it is foolishness. He just says that Christianity is more important and he is right.

Quote:

From the same book, Bacon was placed under restrictions in about 1263 by his monastery, prohibiting him from writing any more due to his unorthodox notions. Then, he wrote Opus Maius, later challenged the papacy on intellectual and theological grounds, and was reportedly sent to prison in 1277. In his trial transcript the Franciscan court records asked the pope to suppress his dangerous teachings.

Actually you mean Roger not Francis. Current research is unanimous that Rog Bacon was not imprisoned for any of his scientific ideas and some think he wasn't imprisioned at all. David Lindberg covered this in his book on Bacon. But the story you quote does still crop up a lot in popular works together with other myths like Christians thinking the world was flat, burning down the Great Library of Alexandria, burning people fo scientific work etc. None of this is true.

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

Toto · 12-23-2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gregor
"Calendar - Humanity's Epic Struggle to Determine a True and Accurate Year" by David Duncan. ...

mixed reviews on Amazon, with some challenges to its accuracy.

mike_decock · 12-23-2003, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by boneyard bill
Don't forget the clock. It took the inventionand development of the clock to enable us to measure time, and time measurement underlies a great many of our physical laws. This was also a Christian invention, but it wasn't intended for scientific purposes.

Humans have been measuring time for millenia:

Quote:

Water clocks were among the earliest timekeepers that didn't depend on the observation of celestial bodies. One of the oldest was found in the tomb of the Egyptian pharaoh Amenhotep I, buried around 1500 BCE.

Earliest Clocks

The Greeks took the simple water timers to a new level:

Quote:

A Macedonian astronomer, Andronikos, supervised the construction of his Horologion, known today as the Tower of the Winds, in the Athens marketplace in the first half of the first century BCE. This octagonal structure showed scholars and shoppers both sundials and mechanical hour indicators. It featured a 24 hour mechanized clepsydra and indicators for the eight winds from which the tower got its name, and it displayed the seasons of the year and astrological dates and periods.

Earliest Clocks

-Mike...

boneyard bill · 12-23-2003, 01:48 PM

mike_decock writes:

Quote:

Humans have been measuring time for millenia:

Yes, but with what precision? The medieval clock was one that was able to be refined to allow measurement with greater and greater precision.

mike_decock · 12-23-2003, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boneyard bill
Yes, but with what precision? The medieval clock was one that was able to be refined to allow measurement with greater and greater precision.

I think the Greeks managed about 15 minute accuracy. This kind of precision wasn't equalled until weight-driven clocks were invented 1,500 years later.

-Mike...

gregor · 12-23-2003, 02:19 PM

I recognize the tall, chinese water clock from a great book that I'd strongly recommend, Ancient Inventions.

(hoping the link works) . . .

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ternetinfidels

{added II to link}

contracycle · 12-24-2003, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by boneyard bill
Don't forget the clock. It took the inventionand development of the clock to enable us to measure time, and time measurement underlies a great many of our physical laws.

I vehemently disagree. Calendars are frequently one of the earliest inventions of human socieites. The cyclism of the moon is easy enough to observe. To say we did not have any means of measuring time until the clock strikes me as mistaken; the clock only allowed time to be used for a different range of problems.

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12-23-2003, 02:19 PM	#26
gregor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 932	I recognize the tall, chinese water clock from a great book that I'd strongly recommend, Ancient Inventions. (hoping the link works) . . . http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ternetinfidels {added II to link}

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