Sheshbazzar

What? a powerful 'God father 'invites' someone to a 'conference' about their assets.
a short time latter his 'young men' bring the victims dead body out and quickly bury it.
Three hours latter the wife goes in for her private conference, drops dead and 'the young men' just as quickly dispose of her body.

No indictment, no imprisonment awaiting trial, no public announcements, no contact with any civil authorities, no witnesses, no jury, no legal procedures....

Just, 'We say how much'a you gots? You pay up capice? capice?'

Just quickly dead and disposed of. Don Corleone couldn't have done it one bit better.

"And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things."

No wonder.

Under any functioning government, Peter, (the guy that was to become the God Father of all of Rome) and his 'young men' would be the prime suspects in an extortion and murder racket.

And what kind of jury would buy the asinine defense story, that these people went into a closed room to have a talk with Peter about their money, and they both just happened to drop dead by a miracle? And that these strong 'young men' of Pete's just had to get them buried as quickly as possible?
Couldn't find a single public official or Legionnaire anywhere? no family members anywhere to turn their dead bodies over to? huh?

You think if both you and your wife dropped dead while having a conference about your assets in the rectory of a local church, and a gang of young men just hauled both your carcasses out and buried them, that would constitute justice?
Would not bring any legal inquiries? or would meet with the approval of any functioning government anywhere?
Just scare everyone in that church into forking over their every last dime?

Its a nasty story, and one that is very likely true in its outline. Contrast this with the elaborate tale of Paul being able to carry his legal defense all the way to Rome. These folks didn't even make it out the door.

outhouse

Maybe you could understand what the translation of churches were in that time period.

At that time it was nothing more then small gatherings in someones diningroom.

There were no churches.

mountainman

The Church History researcher Eusebius claims to be an eyewitness to the existence of "large churches in all the cities".

He says large churches existed everywhere but were destroyed.



None of these church foundations have been found.

jakejonesiv

Then how do you explain the first chapter of Romans? How could your alleged Paul, write a letter to the Roman church, whom he had never visited (1:13), whose faith was spoken of in the whole world? (Rom. 1:8)?

Onias is right on this. Writing from Rome, you would think Justin would surely know the epistle to the Romans! Had the epistle to the Romans never been delivered?? Or if delivered had it lay forgotten and scorned is a murky basement? Or, more likely, had it been delivered, but by Marcion?

Best,
Jake

stephan huller

But the fictions were not limited to the orthodox Church given that the Marcionites also had a sometimes different set of places attached to the same letters. Someone certainly thought that letters were sent out. Also Peter van Deun has actually published an article on the range of uses for the term. He notes that ἀποστολικός indeed has a previous history in pagan literature. The use of the word is very rare in pagan texts (about 5 passages) and all these record date from late antiquity; we find the oldest pagan example in the Deipnosophistae of Athenaeus, an author who worked in the early third century CE, and this is — as he demonstrates — younger than the oldest Christian records. He also points out that the pagan ἀποστολικός is used in a very specific literary meaning: it is a kind of song (i.e. μέλη), sung upon the departure of a diplomatic delegation or written by someone abroad who sent his poem afterwards. To this end if there is some relation to the Marcionite term, it would be appropriate to envision these as letters sent - or thought to be sent - by the apostle after he left that particular city.

Clivedurdle

After reading this, I again ask about Androcles!

The entire New Testament is looking more and more as a literary creation that got religionised in a way Homer did not.