Toto

Apologetics is technically the defense of the faith. The faith involved is basically indefensible since it is full of contradictions and absurdities, so in practice Christian apologetics involves trying to explain these away. But somehow it never involves apologizing.

Except for fundamentalists, most Christians accept that some of the gospels are allegorical and are not literal history. I don't think that most Christians would be very shocked if the feeding scenes were not literal history.

It is only when you describe the existence of Jesus himself as allegory that you start to become controversial.

bacht

The problem with these stories of public miracles is that no-one ever talked about them later except Christians. This particular story probably echoes the miracle of Elisha feeding 100 men with 20 loaves (II Kings 4.42)

Sheshbazzar

Just a side note; It has been my observation that whatever is the definition of 'Christian Apologetics', in 'down in the trenches' practice as in private conversations, and debates on forums such as this one, 'Christian Apologetics' becomes a way for Christians to -never- be wrong.
IE, no matter how contradictory the texts, with enough imagination a way can be found to defend it, or reconcile it by making it mean something other than what is clearly written, to do this the Apologist can on the fly make up 'creative' and even ridiculous and unsupportable claims and 'explanations', -they do not have to be right- they only have serve to the save the Apologists from having to concede, or admit to any fault in the texts themselves or their interpretation thereof.
Just how I see it folks.
Shesh.

Susan2

Life itself is full of contradictions and absurdities, is life then indefensible?

Is atheism, or an atheist full of contradictions and absurdities, and if so is atheism indefensible?

Richard Dawkins was pictured in front of a bus with a sign that says, God does not exist, go and enjoy your life. How are they to do that? Does Richard Dawkins have an answer?

Does Richard Dawkins have proof that God does not exist? Where is his evidence? He has asserted a claim with no proof. Does he demand proof of others (theists) but not himself (atheists)?

Faith (belief/trust) in Richard Dawkins/atheism/secularism/capitalism/socialism is basically indefensible since it is full of contradictions and absurdities.

Does Richard Dawkins plan to apologize any time soon? Does Judaism? Does Islam? Does Catholicism? Buddhism? Hinduism? Christianity? Secularism? The USA? England? France? Germany? Finland? Russia? Romania? Brazil?

How about Judy Garland? Jerry Sienfeld? Me? You?

Illegal immigrants are a huge contradiction and are irrationally burdensome (absurdity). Indefensible.

I will not await their apology, nor will I await the apology of their defenders.

Outsourcing jobs is a devastating contradiction and completely absurd. It is indefensible.

I am watching the movie Defiance.

The director presents the contradictions and absurdities of life from a variety of perspectives, including capitalism/secularism/socialism/atheism/theism/Judaism, just to name a few.

I wonder if Richard Carrier, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens or any of the others have ever said thank you to God or JC for feeding them?



Wow! There's a contradiction. They (JC/God) don't exist, but they fed them (the Richards, the Christophers, and the others). It must be a miracle, what else would explain it?

Absurd?

bacht

There is no proof that God exists or doesn't exist. We're free to believe what we want. Dawkins is free to make a case for atheism, but there's no official "church of atheism" he represents. The only personal gain for him would be book sales, just like any other writer.

Dark Virtue

Wow...what are you talking about?!?

There is no faith needed for atheism. Faith in what? Atheism is a lack of a belief. I don't need faith to not believe in leprechauns or santa. Do you?

Why would ANY atheist thank God or Jesus for feeding them? I would sooner thank those leprechauns or santa, they've done just as much to put food on my table.

Susan2

Yes, Dawkins is free to make a case for atheism. I never said he wasn’t.

Is it a contradiction, or absurd (irrational)that Jesus/God would feed the atheists? I am just pointing out that he, she, it fed them, and quite well.

When the bible says that Jesus fed the multitudes, which part of multitude doesn’t include atheists?


Does this God/Jesus from the bible have to apologize for feeding atheists? Do atheists have to apologize for being fed?

Obviously they don’t even have to acknowledge that they are being fed, but of course you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.

Atheists are being fed.

Atheists are feeding on the word of God, the story, the bible, fiction, myth or however else you want to put it to make the it more palatable.

I haven’t met an atheist yet who apologizes for being fed.

Should Christians apologize for being fed?



Apologetics is technically the defense of a belief. The belief involved is basically indefensible since it is full of contradictions and absurdities, so in practice political apologetics, or corporate apologetics, involves trying to explain these away. But somehow it never involves apologizing.

Toto

I am an atheist, and Jesus never fed me. I see no evidence that any in the crowd were atheists. Why do you claim that Jesus feeds atheists?

Susan2

What you don’t see is evidence that any in the crowd were not atheists. Imo, it would be unreasonable to conclude that there were no atheists in the crowd/multitudes.

Do democrats listen to republicans and visa versa? In the days before radio and TV do you think they were in each other's crowds of listeners?

Given human nature I find it reasonable to conclude that atheists were in the crowds/multitudes.

Does the author specify that there were only believers in the crowds?

I will even go so far as to say that having read any of the writings, you are by default in the crowd. Like the energizer bunny he/the story keeps going and going and going, and the crowds keep growing and growing and growing.

When Jesus speaks, even atheists listen, obviously, as this forum demonstrates. How else could they have an opinion, knowledgeable or not?


Food for thought, or do you think that there is no value whatsoever in the writings, even if the value is rejection?


You do have a sense of humor, can appriciate the irony?

I hardly think there will be any apologies forth coming from any of the CEO's of the bail outs, and you can be sure George W is enjoying his retirement as well.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to Susan2: In your opinion, is Jesus the only begotten Son of God, and did he miraculously feed 5,000 people as described in the Bible?