hisecret

Charge a Xian with a capital crime when the only evidence the prosecution has is a bunch of unauthenticated tenth-hand hearsay based on divine revelation.

I bet their opinions about the reliability of this type of evidence might change.

Craychek

The quotes in the gospels would be hersey within hersey since it's what the writer says the source said the people said. Though some of the gospels may have POTENTIALLY been written during the life time of some some of jesus's followers, it is HIGHLY unlikely that all of them got together and talked to each of the authors of the gospels.

That being said, another point I want to make is this: how accurately can you remember a whole speech you heard once? Now imagine it's 30 years later and you need to recall it word for word... there's no way you can't do it. this is why this kind of stuff isn't allowed in the court room unless it's under an exception of the hersey rule such as excited utterance.

It just boggles the mind when people say that the events in the gospels are what EXACTLY happened when even in today's world witnesses to the same event can have greatly conflicting versions of it.

oh and sorry for the jumbledness of this post it was written over about 45 minutes during the few momments i could sit down at work

Clivedurdle

Arguably a real John the Baptist was shoehorned in by the gospel writers to improve the story and introduce some continuity. Also explains baptism. But the point is he had nothing to do with xianity - which did not exist then!

The Star Trek stories have several timeline plots - like the Borg trying to stop Cochrane working out warp drive. Try looking at the gospels as using similar plot devices - maybe they are an early example of time travel in writing - creating a fictional hero in the past, although the Jewish people were highly skilled at reinventing the past, as with the Exodus tales.

An example of stories about a real person being used to introduce some manufactured reality to a story.

Look at something as if it were manufactured with a purpose - to create followers - and maybe you look at the elements differently...

spamandham

Some of the quotes can not even be heresay, but must have been invented by the author. For example, who was in the desert with Jesus dutifilly writing down his conversation with the devil, when he was alone in the desert? Who was recording his monologue in the garden when all the disciples were asleep? Where was the stenographer when he was talking to the thief on the cross?

All the conversations in the gospels were manufactured by the authors, because that's the way period hero biographies were written. Both the author and the intended audience knew these were not intended to be history reports. The authors were recording what they imagined the people would have said - more like fan fiction than biography really.

aa5874

If Jesus was real. and those things did happen, then Jesus could have told someone about his temptation with the devil, Jesus could have told someone that the disciples were sleeping while he was praying, and what he prayed.

A person found alive after being adrift in a boat alone for days can tell his rescuers of his experiences.

It cannot be really true or confirmed to be true that the intended audience knew that the Jesus stories or biographies were not history reports.

People believed the Jesus stories or biographies. The Church writers claimed they were true.

spamandham

Heh. I have to give you points for that. :notworthy:

This is where the dreaded *internal analysis* (let there be mass hysteria in the streets) comes into play. By examining the content and style of the Gospels, Talbert (and others) have pointed out similarities to other period hero biographies.

By establishing similarities, and comparing known commentary about those other works, inferences may be drawn about the gospels as well.