steamer

Taken from link

While looking for a list of the Christian's god's attributes, I realized that the Christian god can be customized and still be backed by the imagined authority of the bible. Here is an example.

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28

From these 5 attributes alone one can select many combinations.

Example 1.

God is satisfied with his works and he dwells in chosen temples. He dwells in the light and can be seen and heard. God sometimes needs rest.

Example 2.

God is dissatisfied with his works and he dwells in darkness but not in temples. He is invisible and cannot be heard. He is never tired and he never rests.

There are thousands of possible combinations using only the first 50 or so contradictions. Who can create the nicest Chritian god? Who can create the most evil Christian god? No wonder there are so many denominations and so many Christians who think they worship the same god but in fact worship beings with different attributes.

achristianbeliever

But steamer look at what you wrote in this thread:
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=211160
Which means you believe there is a specific biblical description of God. And it sounds as though you have the "correct" description. This thread seems to contradict the other one.

False Fable

I think Steamer is just being snarky.

steamer

We could know the correct description of god if you would be so kind as to produce a god to compare the description to. Pity, you have no god but the one you imagine to compare that description to.

I do admit however that any description of god will be a custom description regardless of what the bible actually says.

Tell me, does the god you love and imagine order that babies be dashed against the rocks and that the young women be held for the raping? Or is your god a different one?

achristianbeliever

Give me a Biblical verse your ascribing this to. I think that's fair to ask that. At least then even if I'm areading it and finding reasons that God is not guilty of any crime I'm not as you might put it ignoring it.

WWJD4aKlondikeBar

You really sound like you intend to find reasons that God is not guilty of any crime. Way to be objective. If you don't know the bible then please don't try to start debating it. We had enough GNDN questions from you in the "True Atheist TM" thread.

And yes, I read it all and immediately remembered the verses he was talking about.



/another one of those uppity atheists who owns a bible and a quran and isn't afraid to use them against you

Angrillori

I think you miss the point. Because the bible describes a god with contradictory attributes (rests/never rests) any coherent description will necessarily be unbiblical.

P.S. I remember the verse too!

Hydra009

Hmm...good examples of contradictions. Here's one that caught my eye:

17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings, sacrifices, and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9

God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings, sacrifices, and holy days.
Ex Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12

Is this really a contradiction? Apparently it is.

Even Psalms 50 seems to ridicule the notion of animal sacrifices to God, yet ultimately approves of them with a sort of "it's the thought that counts" message:N/AAnd yet even this possible work-around is contradicted in Isaiah 1:N/AQuite a different view of God than the previous one, who allows but does not require or desire sacrifices, but wishes to be "honored" by human followers through animal sacrifice, and the God before that, a God who delights in the "aroma" of sacrificed animals.

Indeed, it is possible to generate a thousand Christian Gods using only the Bible.

But the list is very incomplete. For example, it doesn't list my favorite verses, the ones that proclaim the permanence of death (as opposed to an afterlife):

Job 7:9 "As a cloud vanishes and is gone,
so he who goes down to the grave does not return."

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/death.html

Hydra009

Not an unreasonable request. I think Achristianbeliever should be shown the verses that we're referencing here, so he can address Steamer's post and maybe attempt to debunk that interpretation of scripture as God endorsing infanticide and rape.

So here ya go:

(Iirc, the context is that Israel is conquered by Babylon, and this is during the Babylonian Captivity. The country of Edom apparently did not come to Israel's aid)

achristianbeliever

Thanks Hydra ok Numbers chapter 31. That is a very popular one. I've even spoken about it in a previous thread about God's right to rule. First off before you condemn God for murdering women and children you cannot simply ignore where God does the opposite:

Deut 20:14-God tells them to avoid killing women and children. Then in verse 16 he seems to go BUT.... so it is clear that in general God does not want children killed but would rather they be assimilated in Hebrew culture. So to assume God would want all the children killed in certain circumstances for no reason seems very bizzarre. One would assume there is a reason for this change in command and we get one in Numbers 33:35.

"'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live." So God is literally saying if you leave any remaining they will be a threat to you.

Now claim that the children were not a threat but then one gets into the whole if you could go back in time and kill Hitler as a baby would you sort of questioning which really doesn't have a specific answer. Now claim this was overkill but you have to admit God did it out of what he felt was protection for the Hebrew people.

Can I tell you what I feel is the most troubling aspect of this section? For me the most troubling section is where he talks about keeping some alive. This seems very bizzarre when one considers where God spoke about the danger of leaving any of them alive. I can only assume that multiplication of the Hebrew people was of primary importance that superseded the threat of having every single person killed. Now I'm sure some of you think this was overkill but it doesn't change the fact that God made this order due to protection of the Hebrew people and not out of some hatred over the Midianite people. Even today we accept the idea of collatoral damage and don't necessarily consider that the equiviliant to infanticide.

Psalm 137:9-Again a very popular point and one that should be looked at. But again I ask you the question of motive. Why is God or the Israelite people wanting this action to be done?

I notice you didn't mention the previous verse:

O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed, Happy the one who repays you as you have served us!

Again this shows it was not based on some sort of child hunting sport. It was based on the idea of eye for an eye. Besides it was a prayer of vengeance not necessarily a command anyway. Can you really believe if you were in prison and tormented your thoughts of your enemy would always be of the highest caliber?