Freethought & Rationalism Archive

David B · 03-09-2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

Why are you so concerned about the acts or lack thereof of a being who you believe doesn't exist?

I'm concerned about humanity growing up and facing the world as it is - because I fear for the future if we don't.

David B

ziffel · 03-09-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

I do see it this way. There are no explanations, to me, for why people die or live. It's just the way life is. I really don't think God sits down with his planner and scorecard and directs who lives or dies.

That's more a greek dea of fate kinda thing, no? The scissors cutting the string?

Dawn, I've been reading your posts in various threads, and wanted to compliment you. Like Gunter pointed out, you don't seem like the typical hard-headed fundy type. You have your beliefs, and I respect that, but I like that you don't try to pull rabbits out of your hat on some of the hard questions and problems that you face regarding your beliefs. You seem honest, and that's refreshing.

Jim, same goes for you. You two seem pretty level-headed, and not afraid to say "I don't know". :thumbs:

Tigers! · 03-09-2006, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertsura

I can't speak for him but I'm concerned because it points out that the Christian God doesn't intervene in worldly matters. Christians claim he does but he obviously doesn't. There is no evidence at all of a God who cares personally about his creation.

Christians shouldn't claim that he intervenes constantly. He does intervene but we cannot say how often. He usually doesn't wave a flag and say "Here I am". Do I know when he intervenes or why? No I don't.

Bertsura · 03-09-2006, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

Christians shouldn't claim that he intervenes constantly. He does intervene but we cannot say how often. He usually doesn't wave a flag and say "Here I am". Do I know when he intervenes or why? No I don't.

Why shouldn't he always intervene? He's all-powerful and all-loving, right? Surely it wouldn't be too much trouble for him to stop horrible things from happening.

More importantly, if you don't know when and why he intervenes, how can you know if he's really there?

Styrofoamdeity · 03-09-2006, 11:05 PM

I made a thread like this on another board about two years ago, called "God has bad day, tosses his hamsters against the wall". I'll reprise it below. The interesting thing about it was that each of the gruesome events HAPPENED ON THE SAME NEWS DAY (October 13, 2003).

If you scan the news on any given Monday or Tuesday with a seach engine, you can compile an amazing list of the freakish deaths God allows to be inflicted on his lambs. Works better on Mondays or Tuesdays.

================================================== =======

Ah, the power of prayer. All stories from just YESTERDAY....

Eight Killed in La. Bus-Truck Collision

By BARBARA POWELL, Associated Press Writer
TALLULAH, La. - A church bus taking senior citizens on a tour of historical sites slammed into a cotton-hauling tractor-trailer on the shoulder of a highway Monday, killing eight people and injuring seven others, state police said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s/bus_accident
_________________________________________________

Oct. 13, 2003, 9:35AM

Car strikes high school runners praying on a highway, killing one

Luling, Texas-AP -- Several Texas high school cross country runners are recovering from injuries they received when a car struck them as they prayed on the side of a road. One of the runners was killed.
The Austin American Statesman reports that ten runners from Luling High School in Luling had gathered to pray before their two-mile run yesterday and were kneeling on the wide shoulder of a highway when they were struck.
http://www.woi-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1479091
_________________________________________________

Boy, 8, dies after hayride accident

BY ADAM WALLWORTH Northwest Arkansas Times
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003
A church hayride ended in tragedy Saturday night after a Farmington thirdgrader fell from the trailer he was riding on with his family.
Orey Scott Hopper, 8, was among 25 others on a hayride sponsored by the Amazing Grace Fellowship Pentecostal Church of Lincoln. Orey is the son of Scott and Jennifer Hopper of Farmington and Gayla and Mark Danner of Fayetteville.
http://nwanews.com/times/story_News.php?storyid=111050
________________________________________________

Two die when family's SUV flips on way to church

By MIKE GLENN
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle
A Suburban carrying seven members of a Hockley family heading to Sunday morning church services crashed and rolled over when the driver lost control after swerving to avoid a stalled pickup, accident investigators said.
The driver, 40, and a 5-year-old boy believed to be his son, both died at the scene after they were thrown from the GMC Suburban about 9 a.m. on U.S. 290 at Mason in northwest Harris County.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...olitan/2153926

________________________________________________

Traffic accident kills family of 4
Driver of SUV that hit family's Corolla also killed; police say alcohol was factor

By Judith Haynes
Daily Press

October 13, 2003

ISLE OF WIGHT -- Four members of one family - Gene Spratley Jr., his wife Felicia, and their teenage children Brittany and Trey - were killed in a traffic accident Saturday night.

"They were good people," said William R. White, a deacon at Little Zion Baptist Church, where Gene Spratley, 46, was also a deacon.

"All of them were good church-going people, good Christians," White said. The accident occurred shortly after 9 p.m. on Business Route 10, also called Old Stage Highway, across from the church.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-92...dlines-topnews

Thomas II · 03-10-2006, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WishboneDawn

I do see it this way. There are no explanations, to me, for why people die or live. It's just the way life is. I really don't think God sits down with his planner and scorecard and directs who lives or dies.

That's more a greek dea of fate kinda thing, no? The scissors cutting the string?

So you are saying that God does not have a plan for each one?

David B · 03-10-2006, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

So you are saying that God does not have a plan for each one?

And what about monitoring all our actions, thoughts, prayers? That's what I was always tought about god in Sunday School.

David B

Ivan · 03-11-2006, 04:18 PM

I have had a more personal experience of God not looking after his own. I have been a lifetime athiest but wife a very commited Catholic. You could say she was the ultimate kind of "good person". Use to look after disabled kids for living etc. Tanya who didn't have "vices" and I man none, she didn't know what finger you help up to flip the bird she was so innocent in nature. Lots of people use to think she was from a past century. Anyway, 6 years ago a routine pain in her hip turns out to be inoperable small cell carconoma. All through her body. Every fine tip aspiration finds more cancer. What she had was lung cancer dispite never smoking. Her death robbed her of all human dignity, She couldn't move as her joints were in eaten out and she lay in bodily waste whilst the understaffed oncology ward struggled to help.
My point here, is her prayers were non stop.. But her God wouldn't listen. Preists were called in to help,but her God wouldn't listen. Why she had to be "kept" in blinding pain that the morphene couldn't reach for some 2 weeks I really would have liked her God to explain. When you here someone pray and beg for death, someone you love dearly, and you can't help, you wonder what kind of God do people think they pray to? I never had such irefrutable proof for my self, that a God does not exist.

Styrofoamdeity · 03-12-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan

I have had a more personal experience of God not looking after his own. I have been a lifetime athiest but wife a very commited Catholic. You could say she was the ultimate kind of "good person". Use to look after disabled kids for living etc. Tanya who didn't have "vices" and I man none, she didn't know what finger you help up to flip the bird she was so innocent in nature. Lots of people use to think she was from a past century. Anyway, 6 years ago a routine pain in her hip turns out to be inoperable small cell carconoma. All through her body. Every fine tip aspiration finds more cancer. What she had was lung cancer dispite never smoking. Her death robbed her of all human dignity, She couldn't move as her joints were in eaten out and she lay in bodily waste whilst the understaffed oncology ward struggled to help.
My point here, is her prayers were non stop.. But her God wouldn't listen. Preists were called in to help,but her God wouldn't listen. Why she had to be "kept" in blinding pain that the morphene couldn't reach for some 2 weeks I really would have liked her God to explain. When you here someone pray and beg for death, someone you love dearly, and you can't help, you wonder what kind of God do people think they pray to? I never had such irefrutable proof for my self, that a God does not exist.

I am terribly, terribly sorry to hear this. Needless to say, you didn't need that kind of proof, and the proof did your wife no good.

I hope the preists had at least a small placebo effect on her suffering...

Ivan · 03-17-2006, 07:23 PM

Far as I could tell, They didn't really. In fact looking back on it, I think its possible the good reverend possibally made things worse in the sense she had given up hope also. But the experience only verified to me what I knew all along at a very fundermental level. There is and never was a God. We are here alone. And Its all not a bad life dispite the pain of losses you can suffer through it. I am still mighty glad to be here!

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03-09-2006, 11:05 PM	#35
Styrofoamdeity Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 3,890	I made a thread like this on another board about two years ago, called "God has bad day, tosses his hamsters against the wall". I'll reprise it below. The interesting thing about it was that each of the gruesome events HAPPENED ON THE SAME NEWS DAY (October 13, 2003). If you scan the news on any given Monday or Tuesday with a seach engine, you can compile an amazing list of the freakish deaths God allows to be inflicted on his lambs. Works better on Mondays or Tuesdays. ================================================== ======= Ah, the power of prayer. All stories from just YESTERDAY.... Eight Killed in La. Bus-Truck Collision By BARBARA POWELL, Associated Press Writer TALLULAH, La. - A church bus taking senior citizens on a tour of historical sites slammed into a cotton-hauling tractor-trailer on the shoulder of a highway Monday, killing eight people and injuring seven others, state police said. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s/bus_accident _________________________________________________ Oct. 13, 2003, 9:35AM Car strikes high school runners praying on a highway, killing one Luling, Texas-AP -- Several Texas high school cross country runners are recovering from injuries they received when a car struck them as they prayed on the side of a road. One of the runners was killed. The Austin American Statesman reports that ten runners from Luling High School in Luling had gathered to pray before their two-mile run yesterday and were kneeling on the wide shoulder of a highway when they were struck. http://www.woi-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1479091 _________________________________________________ Boy, 8, dies after hayride accident BY ADAM WALLWORTH Northwest Arkansas Times Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 A church hayride ended in tragedy Saturday night after a Farmington thirdgrader fell from the trailer he was riding on with his family. Orey Scott Hopper, 8, was among 25 others on a hayride sponsored by the Amazing Grace Fellowship Pentecostal Church of Lincoln. Orey is the son of Scott and Jennifer Hopper of Farmington and Gayla and Mark Danner of Fayetteville. http://nwanews.com/times/story_News.php?storyid=111050 ________________________________________________ Two die when family's SUV flips on way to church By MIKE GLENN Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle A Suburban carrying seven members of a Hockley family heading to Sunday morning church services crashed and rolled over when the driver lost control after swerving to avoid a stalled pickup, accident investigators said. The driver, 40, and a 5-year-old boy believed to be his son, both died at the scene after they were thrown from the GMC Suburban about 9 a.m. on U.S. 290 at Mason in northwest Harris County. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...olitan/2153926 ________________________________________________ Traffic accident kills family of 4 Driver of SUV that hit family's Corolla also killed; police say alcohol was factor By Judith Haynes Daily Press October 13, 2003 ISLE OF WIGHT -- Four members of one family - Gene Spratley Jr., his wife Felicia, and their teenage children Brittany and Trey - were killed in a traffic accident Saturday night. "They were good people," said William R. White, a deacon at Little Zion Baptist Church, where Gene Spratley, 46, was also a deacon. "All of them were good church-going people, good Christians," White said. The accident occurred shortly after 9 p.m. on Business Route 10, also called Old Stage Highway, across from the church. http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-92...dlines-topnews

03-11-2006, 04:18 PM	#38
Ivan Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 18	I have had a more personal experience of God not looking after his own. I have been a lifetime athiest but wife a very commited Catholic. You could say she was the ultimate kind of "good person". Use to look after disabled kids for living etc. Tanya who didn't have "vices" and I man none, she didn't know what finger you help up to flip the bird she was so innocent in nature. Lots of people use to think she was from a past century. Anyway, 6 years ago a routine pain in her hip turns out to be inoperable small cell carconoma. All through her body. Every fine tip aspiration finds more cancer. What she had was lung cancer dispite never smoking. Her death robbed her of all human dignity, She couldn't move as her joints were in eaten out and she lay in bodily waste whilst the understaffed oncology ward struggled to help. My point here, is her prayers were non stop.. But her God wouldn't listen. Preists were called in to help,but her God wouldn't listen. Why she had to be "kept" in blinding pain that the morphene couldn't reach for some 2 weeks I really would have liked her God to explain. When you here someone pray and beg for death, someone you love dearly, and you can't help, you wonder what kind of God do people think they pray to? I never had such irefrutable proof for my self, that a God does not exist.

03-17-2006, 07:23 PM	#40
Ivan Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 18	Far as I could tell, They didn't really. In fact looking back on it, I think its possible the good reverend possibally made things worse in the sense she had given up hope also. But the experience only verified to me what I knew all along at a very fundermental level. There is and never was a God. We are here alone. And Its all not a bad life dispite the pain of losses you can suffer through it. I am still mighty glad to be here!

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